[Vision2020] Plan in Action

Fri Feb 17 08:59:27 PST 2006

Crabtree disingenuously writes:

"To look at my posts and take from them any hint of "banning" or censorship is to completely and I suspect deliberately misread what I have written. A fairly common tactic among the I loathe CC crowd. For me to suggest an alternative to "fords" endless carrying on is hardly totalitarian, anti "civil liberties," or "despotic." Over blown rhetoric in the extreme."

If one reads Crabtree's responses to J Ford, Keely Emerine-Mix, etc, it seems to clear to me that the tenor of his messages includes (but is not limited to):

1.    What goes on in the CCC is none of your business.
2.    Do not concern your self with it, it is nothing.
3.    Don't spend energy worrying about it.
4.    Therefore, stop writing about it.

Telling someone to stop discussing something because it is none of their business is the doing the same thing.

Crabtree:

Saying that you don't understand what all the fuss is all about is also disingenuous.  One must assume that since you are a literate person and have claimed to read at least some of the posts antithetical to the CCC, you have a fairly clear understanding of the many objections to the CCC including those that are now emerging from within.

What you disagree with, besides their point of view, is the actions of those that oppose the CCC in making them such an issue.  You do not believe:

1.    That it is any of their business.
2.    That even if it is a little bit, it should not be worth the nearly the amount of effort that is consumed in that opposition.
3.    You are tired of hearing about.

You are certainly entitled to that opinion.  

For a variety of reasons, I doubt that you will ever change that opinion no matter what occurs.  I strongly support your right to express that opinion.  I encourage you to continue to express it since it provides more fuel, motivation, and opportunities of the anti-CCCers to get their messages out.

On a personal note, you write:

"With regard to our personal interaction, referred to in your last sentence, which has been strictly business and non personal. How has this been in any way analogous to what transpires on this forum? I don't recall oppressing you or denying you any of your God given rights. Please enlighten me."

On one occasion and perhaps two several years ago, perhaps before you knew my name, I recall being treated to a rather adamant exposition of some of your conservative social/political views without any provocation on my part when I went into your shop to have some keys made.  I remember that you became even more adamant when I asked a question or two.  Your views, different from mine and not posing any threat of any kind, did not cause me to change our business relationship.  Your business has done all of our locksmithing since we have lived here save the making of special electronic keys which at the time you did not have the means to do.

Again, I encourage you to continue to blast those that are anti-CCCers, especially J Ford.  

It is clear from the reaction of several members of the cult, including your friend Comb-Over Courtney, that J Ford is literately and liberally grinding handfuls of fine particles of glass into the numerous festering ulcers of the cult and thereby inducing a great deal of discomfort, odor, and dissonance therein.  Your posts have certainly caused some to reread J Ford's posts much more carefully and to take her remarks more seriously.

Thank you for helping us.  Without your and Donovan's help, our tasks would be much harder.

Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)
deco at moscow.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: g. crabtree 
To: Art Deco ; Vision 2020 
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 7:23 AM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Plan in Action

Mr. Fox, Unfortunately you have caused me to lose a wager. I bet that you would not become personally and anatomically abusive and insulting till I had been regularly posting to this list for at least 90 days. 

Michael causes me no "itch" what so ever. I think that in general he's a fairly OK guy and the only reason he's involved in my posting at all is because he is referenced several times by "ford" in his/her rants. The fact that he keeps most of his Byzantine musings on his own site and doesn't preach to the anti-Wilson choir on the vis makes him top notch in my book.

To look at my posts and take from them any hint of "banning" or censorship is to completely and I suspect deliberately misread what I have written. A fairly common tactic among the I loathe CC crowd. For me to suggest an alternative to "fords" endless carrying on is hardly totalitarian, anti "civil liberties," or "despotic." Over blown rhetoric in the extreme.

With regard to our personal interaction, referred to in your last sentence, which has been strictly business and non personal. How has this been in any way analogous to what transpires on this forum? I don't recall oppressing you or denying you any of your God given rights. Please enlighten me.

G. Crabtree
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Art Deco 
  To: Vision 2020 
  Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 8:54 PM
  Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Plan in Action

  Michael,

  Apparently some of use are causing Mr. Crabtree an unscratchable, deeply annoying anal itch by our various interests.  He wishes that we would find other interest.  

  Scratch him off the list of those concerned about civil liberties or those respecting the choice of individuals in a free society of topics to talk about or issues to concern themselves about.  Like Donovan, put him on the list for banning discussing anything that he doesn't personally deem proper (which urgings, of course as any not total fool could see, is quite counterproductive).

  Crabtree is simply another would be community despot telling us what to talk about and how to talk about it masquerading otherwise.  But he is not totally a hypocrite.  He is in person like he is on V 2020.

  W.

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Michael 
  To: vision2020 at moscow.com 
  Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 7:32 PM
  Subject: [Vision2020] Plan in Action

  Crabtree Writes:

  I have seriously tried to comprehend the dastardly deed that seems to have inflamed Mr. Metzler .it is just too arcane to understand how anyone outside the group could work up much of a lather over 

  it.

  Me:

  Mr. Crabtree, 

  If you wish to throw me into the heap of people you enjoy castigating here, please mention something specific so that I can answer your charges. I really don't care to get into any discussions with you, but I'm hoping you would give me the ability to defend myself by referencing some specific evil I've done that you are apparently very concerned about. 

  Thank you

  Michael Metzler

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