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<DIV><FONT size=4>Crabtree disingenuously writes:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>"To look at my posts and take from
them any hint of "banning" or censorship is to completely and I suspect
deliberately misread what I have written. A fairly common tactic among the
I loathe CC crowd. For me to suggest an alternative to "fords" endless
carrying on is hardly totalitarian, anti "civil liberties," or "despotic." Over
blown rhetoric in the extreme."</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>If one reads Crabtree's responses to J Ford, Keely Emerine-Mix, etc, it
seems to clear to me that the tenor of his messages includes (but is not limited
to):</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>1. What goes on in the CCC is none of your
business.</DIV>
<DIV>2. Do not concern your self with it, it is nothing.</DIV>
<DIV>3. Don't spend energy worrying about it.</DIV>
<DIV>4. Therefore, stop writing about it.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Telling someone to stop discussing something because it is none of their
business is the doing the same thing.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Crabtree:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Saying that you don't understand what all the fuss is all about is also
disingenuous. One must assume that since you are a literate person and
have claimed to read at least some of the posts antithetical to the CCC, you
have a fairly clear understanding of the many objections to the CCC including
those that are now emerging from within.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>What you disagree with, besides their point of view, is the actions of
those that oppose the CCC in making them such an issue. You do not
believe:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>1. That it is any of their business.</DIV>
<DIV>2. That even if it is a little bit, it should not be
worth the nearly the amount of effort that is consumed in that opposition.</DIV>
<DIV>3. You are tired of hearing about.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>You are certainly entitled to that opinion. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>For a variety of reasons, I doubt that you will ever change that opinion no
matter what occurs. I strongly support your right to express that
opinion. I encourage you to continue to express it since it
provides more fuel, motivation, and opportunities of the anti-CCCers to get
their messages out.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>On a personal note, you write:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>"With regard to our personal
interaction, referred to in your last sentence, which has been strictly business
and non personal. How has this been in any way analogous to what transpires
on this forum? I don't recall oppressing you or denying you any of your God
given rights. Please enlighten me."</FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>On one occasion and perhaps two several years ago, perhaps before you knew
my name, I recall being treated to a rather adamant exposition of some of your
conservative social/political views without any provocation on my part when I
went into your shop to have some keys made. I remember that you
became even more adamant when I asked a question or two. Your views,
different from mine and not posing any threat of any kind, did not cause me to
change our business relationship. Your business has done all of our
locksmithing since we have lived here save the making of special electronic keys
which at the time you did not have the means to do.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Again, I encourage you to continue to blast those that are anti-CCCers,
especially J Ford. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>It is clear from the reaction of several members of the cult, including
your friend Comb-Over Courtney, that J Ford is literately and liberally
grinding handfuls of fine particles of glass into the numerous festering
ulcers of the cult and thereby inducing a great deal of discomfort,
odor, and dissonance therein. Your posts have certainly caused some
to reread J Ford's posts much more carefully and to take her remarks more
seriously.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Thank you for helping us. Without your and Donovan's help, our tasks
would be much harder.</DIV>
<DIV><BR>Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)<BR><A
href="mailto:deco@moscow.com">deco@moscow.com</A><BR> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A
title=jampot@adelphia.net href="mailto:jampot@adelphia.net">g. crabtree</A>
</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=deco@moscow.com href="mailto:deco@moscow.com">Art
Deco</A> ; <A title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">Vision 2020</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Friday, February 17, 2006 7:23 AM</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] Plan in Action</DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Mr. Fox, Unfortunately you have caused me to lose a
wager. I bet that you would not become personally and anatomically abusive
and insulting till I had been regularly posting to this list for at least 90
days. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Michael causes me no "itch" what so ever. I think
that in general he's a fairly OK guy and the only reason he's involved in my
posting at all is because he is referenced several times by "ford" in his/her
rants. The fact that he keeps most of his Byzantine musings on his own site and
doesn't preach to the anti-Wilson choir on the vis makes him top notch in
my book.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>To look at my posts and take from them any hint of
"banning" or censorship is to completely and I suspect deliberately misread what
I have written. A fairly common tactic among the I loathe CC crowd. For me
to suggest an alternative to "fords" endless carrying on is hardly totalitarian,
anti "civil liberties," or "despotic." Over blown rhetoric in the
extreme.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>With regard to our personal interaction, referred
to in your last sentence, which has been strictly business and non personal. How
has this been in any way analogous to what transpires on this forum? I
don't recall oppressing you or denying you any of your God given rights. Please
enlighten me.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>G. Crabtree</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=deco@moscow.com href="mailto:deco@moscow.com">Art Deco</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">Vision 2020</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, February 16, 2006 8:54
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] Plan in
Action</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Michael,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Apparently some of use are causing Mr. Crabtree an
unscratchable, deeply annoying anal itch by our various interests.
He wishes that we would find other interest. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Scratch him off the list of those concerned about civil
liberties or those respecting the choice of individuals in a
free society of topics to talk about or issues to concern themselves
about. Like Donovan, put him on the list for banning discussing
anything that he doesn't personally deem proper (which urgings, of course
as any not total fool could see, is quite
counterproductive).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Crabtree is simply another would be community despot
telling us what to talk about and how to talk about it masquerading
otherwise. But he is not totally a hypocrite. He is in person like
he is on V 2020.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>W.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A
title=metzler@moscow.com href="mailto:metzler@moscow.com">Michael</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, February 16, 2006 7:32 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> [Vision2020] Plan in Action</DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">Crabtree
Writes:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">I have seriously tried to
comprehend the dastardly deed that seems to have inflamed Mr. Metzler
it is
just too arcane to understand how anyone outside the group could work up much
of a lather over <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">it.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">Me:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">Mr. Crabtree,
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">If you wish to throw me
into the heap of people you enjoy castigating here, please mention something
specific so that I can answer your charges. I really dont care to get into
any discussions with you, but Im hoping you would give me the ability to
defend myself by referencing some specific evil Ive done that you are
apparently very concerned about. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">Thank
you<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">Michael
Metzler</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<P>
<HR>
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mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<BR>ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ<BR>
<P>
<HR>
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