[Vision2020] Re: LMT reporting US losses

Tue Feb 7 22:09:01 PST 2006

Sunil

I am surry, but you can not have it both ways here.

What exact justification can you make that it was OK to occupy German and 
Japan yet is not OK to occupy Iraq?

What exact justification can you make that would justify the strategic 
bombing of Dresden, Tokyo, Hamburg and the killing of hundreds of thousands 
of civilians in a very deliberate campaign, then not justify collateral 
civilian deaths in a combat zone in Iraq that were not deliberate?

Hitler and Tojo committed war crimes and crimes against Humanity.  Saddam 
did the same and we justifiably are bringing him before the bar of justice.

Was it OK to war with Serbia to stop the genocide in Kosovo?  Kosovo, 
afterall, was a part of the Serbian state and we very much invaded and we 
very much killed Serb citizens over what could be argued was an internal 
matter of ethnic cleansing.

Dafur is a purely internal matter for the Sudanese government.  Was it wrong 
for us to put pressure and tell them that we would use force if they did not 
stop the genocide there?

Phil Nisbet

>From: "Sunil Ramalingam" <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
>CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
>Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Re: LMT reporting US losses
>Date: Tue, 07 Feb 2006 21:08:38 -0800
>
>Matt,
>
>I was willing to live with the 2000 election debacle.  But I do despise the 
>lies that have been showered on us by Bush in his prosecution of the war in 
>Iraq, and unlike you, I won't accept them.
>
>I also despise the notion that we have some right to 'make a country 
>better.'  We invaded another state on the basis of lies and have occupied 
>them.  We have no right to do either, and the claim that we did it to make 
>them better is repugnant to me.  I don't think slaughtering civilians does 
>much to make a country better.  It sure as hell isn't improving us.
>
>There's little in common between Germany and Japan on the one hand and Iraq 
>on the other.  If you disagree with this perhaps you can explain to me how 
>I've got it wrong.  We actually had a right to be in both Japan and Germany 
>after WWII; I don't see how we have any right to be in Iraq.
>
>How is Iraq, as it plunges into a civil war, better now?
>
>Sunil
>
>
>>From: "Matt Decker" <mattd2107 at hotmail.com>
>>To: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com
>>CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
>>Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Re: LMT reporting US losses
>>Date: Tue, 07 Feb 2006 18:31:25 -0800
>>
>>
>>Sunil,
>>
>>Ill just make it short. The war on terror is not just in Iraq, but also 
>>involves many other nations as well. If you want to believe that, well 
>>that is up to you. Bush is not the enemy. I suspect that you have hated 
>>bush ever since Gore lost in 2000. Just like him you have yet to realize 
>>that fact.
>>
>>I dont know if the war in Iraq is/was the right decision. However, I also 
>>think that Iraq is now better off than BS(before Saddam). What we need to 
>>focus on is whether to take on Iran and Korea or not.
>>
>>As in forward bases in other countries, I guess its how YOU see it. I say 
>>look at Japan and Germany and how long we have been there. I believe that 
>>if you are going to make country better, having a occuping force is 
>>necessary.  But hey its all opinion.
>>
>>Its time that people quit following the political lines and see through 
>>all the BS, from both sides.
>>
>>Matt
>>
>>>From: "Sunil Ramalingam" <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
>>>CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Re: LMT reporting US losses
>>>Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2006 21:44:12 -0800
>>>
>>>Matt,
>>>
>>>I suspect you'd call me ignorant no matter what I said, but what the 
>>>hell, I'll reply anyway.  I think the war in Iraq is entirely unrelated 
>>>to the so-called war on terror.  I'm not sure how one wages a war on a 
>>>tactic, but Iraq is a separate and unrelated war.
>>>
>>>I disagree with what Phil says about the war not being about oil.  I 
>>>think it's about securing access to Middle-East oil; I think one of the 
>>>goals was to be able to move our troops out of Saudi Arabia, and into 
>>>Iraq.  I don't know if the Administration is starting to give up on that 
>>>one as things are going so poorly; I wonder what is going on with the 
>>>plan for long-term bases.  Our 'liberal free press' hasn't done a good 
>>>job keeping us informed about that aspect of the occupation.
>>>
>>>I see Ted has also raised the issue of the long-term bases, so I won't 
>>>say any more.
>>>
>>>If Iraq's oil is being used to rebuild Iraq and make it a better country, 
>>>it's a pretty well-kept secret.  Someone ought to let the Iraqis know 
>>>about it.  They seem to have gotten the idea, from watching what goes on 
>>>around them, that reconstruction is about American companies lining their 
>>>pockets while they stay unemployed.
>>>
>>>I think the notion that we have the right to invade other countries to 
>>>make them better is a dangerous and arrogant one.  Perhaps we should 
>>>demonstrate that we can rebuild the Gulf Coast before we go around 
>>>invading countries that haven't harmed us and killing their people.
>>>
>>>Sunil
>>>
>>>
>>>>From: "Matt Decker" <mattd2107 at hotmail.com>
>>>>To: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com, rhayes at turbonet.com
>>>>CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>>Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Re: LMT reporting US losses
>>>>Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2006 08:00:17 -0800
>>>>
>>>>Sunil,
>>>>
>>>>Isn't the war, a war on terrorism.Thus the war in afganistan, Indonsia, 
>>>>Phillipines, Iraq, and even Sudan. With all of these countries involved, 
>>>>I think its a little ignorant to say "this" war is about oil.
>>>>
>>>>Secondly, If the oil in Iraq is being used to rebuild Iraq and make it a 
>>>>better country, isn't that a good thing?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>_____________________________________________________
>>>List services made available by First Step Internet, serving the 
>>>communities of the Palouse since 1994.                 http://www.fsr.net 
>>>                                mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
>>
>>_________________________________________________________________
>>Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! 
>>http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
>>
>>_____________________________________________________
>>List services made available by First Step Internet, serving the 
>>communities of the Palouse since 1994.                 http://www.fsr.net  
>>                               mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
>
>
>_____________________________________________________
>List services made available by First Step Internet, serving the 
>communities of the Palouse since 1994.                 http://www.fsr.net   
>                              mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! 
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/