[Vision2020] Re: LMT reporting US losses

[Sunil Ramalingam]

My responses are below Phil's statements.


>From: "Phil Nisbet" <pcnisbet1 at hotmail.com>
>To: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com
>CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
>Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Re: LMT reporting US losses
>Date: Tue, 07 Feb 2006 22:09:01 -0800
>
>Sunil
>
>I am surry, but you can not have it both ways here.
>
>What exact justification can you make that it was OK to occupy German and 
>Japan yet is not OK to occupy Iraq?

Germany and Japan invaded not just their neighbors but their neighbors too.  
We helped Iraq in their war against Iran, and that hardly gives us the moral 
high ground in condemning them now.  As for their invasion of Kuwait, that 
was dealt with a decade ago.
>
>What exact justification can you make that would justify the strategic 
>bombing of Dresden, Tokyo, Hamburg and the killing of hundreds of thousands 
>of civilians in a very deliberate campaign, then not justify collateral 
>civilian deaths in a combat zone in Iraq that were not deliberate?

Phil, when you find me justifying Dresden, it will be the first time I've 
done that.  As for killing Iraqis in combat zones, apparently any place we 
are is a combat zone, and I don't justify their deaths.  Since I don't think 
we have any right or reason to be there, I don't think we have any 
legitimate combat zones in Iraq.
>
>Hitler and Tojo committed war crimes and crimes against Humanity.  Saddam 
>did the same and we justifiably are bringing him before the bar of justice.

We didn't give a crap about his war crimes for years.  We turned a blind eye 
to them when they suited us.  Bush Sr. urged the Shiites and Kurds to rise 
up in '91 and then did nothing to help them when Saddam reacted predictably. 
  We have no moral high ground here, and I hope I'm never hypocritical 
enough to pretend otherwise.  Bar of justice my ass.
>
>Was it OK to war with Serbia to stop the genocide in Kosovo?  Kosovo, 
>afterall, was a part of the Serbian state and we very much invaded and we 
>very much killed Serb citizens over what could be argued was an internal 
>matter of ethnic cleansing.

I don't know about this.  I was opposed to our bombing but I can't 
articulate a position here.  Just because Clinton ordered it doesn't mean I 
think it was OK.
>
>Dafur is a purely internal matter for the Sudanese government.  Was it 
>wrong for us to put pressure and tell them that we would use force if they 
>did not stop the genocide there?

Our inaction here gives lie to the 'humanitarian' justifications for our 
invasion and occupation of Iraq.

Phil, I do disagree with your argument that this war isn't about oil and 
instead is about a new paradigm in the Middle East; perhaps it's because I 
hope our leaders are not so immensely stupid that they would launch a war on 
that theory.

Is there any historical evidence from the Middle East that suggests Western 
nations can invade other states and 'create' democracy?  And if that was the 
reason, why didn't we have a discussion about it before the war?  "Mr. and 
Mrs. Smith, we're going to send your son to die in Iraq.  We don't know if 
our plan to bring democracy to the region will work, it's a little nutty and 
really arrogant, and we have  no successful examples to point to, but 
wouldn't it be great if it did work?"

Can you tell me why the war is off-budget?  How are we going to pay for it?

Sunil
>