[Vision2020] Holocaust Toons

Tue Feb 7 18:16:09 PST 2006

Matt says:

"As in local religion, you are labeling those cccers as evil entities of this world. Art the day that christ church goers start cutting off heads with a rusty 12" knife, while the person is pleading for his life, which turns into a blood curdeling scream, is the day you have convinced me."

Matt, please read carefully what Christ Church says in their official organ:

>From Credenda/Agenda by Gregory Dickison [Comments added]:

http://www.credenda.org/old/issues/vol3/magi3-9.htm

"The civil magistrate is the minister of God to execute wrath on the wrongdoer (Rom. 13:4). God has not left his civil minister without guidance on how to exercise his office. The Scriptures set forth clear standards of judgment for many offenses. Capital crimes, for example, include premeditated killing (murder), kidnapping, sorcery, bestiality, adultery, homosexuality, and cursing one's parents..."

"In contemporary American jurisprudence, none of these offenses is punishable by death, with the occasional exception of murder. The magistrates have dispensed with God's standards of justice. Some Christians believe this is an improvement. They would be horrified to think that the "harsh" penalties of the law should still be applied. Sometimes this is the result of the mistaken belief that the Old Testament has no further application after the advent of Christ. This is an exegetical problem. Too often, it is the result of a sinful view of the criminal. This sin is called pity."

"If your brother, the son of your mother, your son or your daughter, the wife of your bosom, or your friend who is as your own soul, secretly entices you, saying, "Let us go and serve other gods,". . . you shall not consent to him or listen to him, nor shall your eye pity him, nor shall you spare him or conceal him; but you shall surely kill him..."  [Heresy: Beware, ye not of the cult (including unconverted Jews)!]

"If two men fight together, and the wife of one draws near to rescue her husband from the hand of the one attacking him, and puts out the hand and seizes him by the genitals, then you shall cut off her hand; your eye shall not pity her..."   

God commands the judge to evaluate the crime rather than the criminal. If the crime is one for which God requires death, then death must be the punishment. Your eye shall not pity. Neither is the repentance of the accused relevant to the imposition of the sentence. 

"Thus, the Bible teaches that pity is not an option where God has decided the matter. The [civil] magistrate, God's minister, is to faithfully execute justice according to God's standard, not man's...  This means that we must return to an obedience which confines pity within the bounds which God has established for us."

Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)
deco at moscow.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Matt Decker" <mattd2107 at hotmail.com>
To: <deco at moscow.com>; <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 5:58 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Holocaust Toons

> Art,
> 
> Glad to see you are dead set in your views and label all those who have 
> found religion as a bad thing. I agree that throughout history religion has 
> influenced believers into a frenzy of hatred and death. I also believe that 
> it has also inspired individuals to help others.
> 
> As in local religion, you are labeling those cccers as evil entities of this 
> world. Art the day that christ church goers start cutting off heads with a 
> rusty 12" knife, while the person is pleading for his life, which turns into 
> a blood curdeling scream, is the day you have convinced me.
> 
> Matthew D
> 
> 
>>From: "Art Deco" <deco at moscow.com>
>>To: "Vision 2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Holocaust Toons
>>Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 15:58:32 -0800
>>
>>Robert, et al,
>>
>>Perhaps we need to be very careful about condemning all Moslems on the 
>>basis of what we have seen from terrorists and those who are now 
>>hating/rioting/destructively venting in the cartoon flap.  There are, no 
>>doubt what-so-ever, some very terrible people who are or who profess to be 
>>Moslems, and worse, profess to be the "true" leaders of Islam and who wish 
>>to do many of us great, great harm.
>>
>>However, not all Moslems take this view; not all Moslems hate Jews.  Just 
>>as the local CCC does not represent anything but a crackpot fringe cult of 
>>Christianity, hard-line Moslems, regardless of what they claim, do not 
>>represent all of Islam.  It is to the moderate Moslems that we need to 
>>appeal and to attempt to dialogue and to co-exist with.
>>
>>As a non-believer, I see the use of religious fervor by terrorists, 
>>politicians, and others, no matter what religion is professed, to be 
>>extremely scary.  Not only can irrational religious/superstitious beliefs 
>>be very powerful, passionate, mind-numbing motivators, it is extremely 
>>scary because unlike gravity, string theory, electricity, etc, there is 
>>currently no way to determine which set of religious beliefs, if any, are 
>>true.
>>
>>This unfortunate state of affairs of total religious ignorance, and no way 
>>of alleviating it yet discovered, is one main reason why religionists 
>>resort to all kinds of rhetorical tricks to convince themselves and to 
>>convince everyone else that their claims are the only "true" ones.  
>>Rioting, for example, is a similar rhetorical device to shouting to 
>>convince others that you are correct.  A "Whoever can shout the loudest 
>>wins." mentality. Rioting/hating/etc also potently engages the passions, 
>>further preventing rational thought/investigation into 
>>religious/superstitious claims and their effects on actions.
>>
>>I do not know what the solution is.  I know from living here and living 
>>in/visiting primarily Islamic areas that once so-called religious "truths" 
>>are invoked to justify an attitude or a behavior, all hope is lost for a 
>>rational solution.
>>
>>It appears extremely, extremely unlikely that the peoples of the world will 
>>suddenly recognize that religious/superstitious fantasies are just that --  
>>unverifiable, troglodytic fantasies.
>>
>>If history has taught us anything it is:  Religious/superstitious fantasies 
>>certainly have useful purposes at times, but are not the kind of knowledge 
>>on which to successfully base/predict probable outcomes in the universe as 
>>we know it.  Until, or more realistically, if, that fundamental state of 
>>affairs is recognized, horrific, perhaps humankind annihilating strife will 
>>grow and continue.
>>
>>Those who have known me for a long time know that it has been for at least 
>>50 years and is my opinion that the end of humankind will not be wrought by 
>>some alleged god or gods invisibly hiding/lurking in the shadows, but some 
>>f**king maniacs acting as if those alleged invisible shadows have substance 
>>and that these f**king maniacs know exactly what those invisible shadows 
>>are bidding.
>>
>>There is some probability, perhaps greater than 0.50, given the current 
>>state of technology/knowledge, the near end of humankind will occur within 
>>25 years and be wrought by religious fanatics.
>>
>>I am glad I am old and hopefully be gone by then.
>>
>>Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)
>>deco at moscow.com
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message ----- From: <mekt7 at netscape.net>
>>To: <Vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 1:30 PM
>>Subject: [Vision2020] Holocaust Toons
>>
>>
>>>One can hardly be surprised that Iran wants to play like the little boy 
>>>who, when offended, shouts, "Oh yeah? Well your momma!, is going to do 
>>>Holocaust cartoons. It does nothing for their cause but show the world the 
>>>true face of Islam, a violent and hostile threat to the peace of the 
>>>world.
>>>
>>>Robert
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>>>
>>
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