[Vision2020] Blind leading the blind

Tue Feb 7 13:07:18 PST 2006

How interesting!

Doug "lemeno" Farris digs up a post from former V2020 poster Jackie Woolf
and tries to attribute it to current V2020 poster J. Ford without any proof
whatsoever that they are one and the same person.

I suppose we're not supposed to notice that sleight of hand  ;-)  Strike
one, Mr. Farris.

Furthermore, while he provides the month & day of one of Ms. Woolf's posts,
he neglects to mention that the post he cites is from over *two years* ago
in 2003.

I suppose we're not supposed to notice that glaring omission, either  ;-)
Strike two, Mr. Farris.

What I find most interesting -- and telling -- however, is that the healthy
and wise people I know recognize that virtues like spirituality, wisdom, and
knowledge are growth processes that continue throughout life as long as we
continue to work on them.  They are processes rather then end points to be
achieved at some point determined by Mr. Farris or any other mortal.

Where on EARTH, Mr. Farris, did you get the idea that God's children don't
continue to grow and aren't capable of improving throughout life?  You sure
didn't get it from God, or from Jesus, or from the Bible.

Scratch that question because I suspect many, if not most, of us know
exactly where on EARTH you got such a silly notion.

In my many readings, I must have missed the part of the Bible where God gave
Mr. Farris or any of his cronies the wisdom or the *authority* to determine
when any of God's children have achieved the potential She gave to each of
us.  Please cite the part of the Bible where I'd find that, Mr. Farris  :-)

Oh, wait . . . that's an impossible request because it flatly doesn't exist.
Strike three, Mr. Farris -- you're out.

You have my pity for having bought into such a pessimistic notion for God's
children, Mr. Farris.  In addition to paying more attention to the Ten
Commandments, it looks like you've got a lot of work yet to do with respect
to the Seven Deadlies.

Of course, with my understanding of God and of the virtues, there's hope for
you yet!

Under the screwy notion you espouse, you're SOL without a paddle  :-p

Saundra Lund
Moscow, ID

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do
nothing.
- Edmund Burke

***** Original material contained herein is Copyright 2005, Saundra Lund.
Do not copy, forward, excerpt, or reproduce outside the Vision 2020 forum
without the express written permission of the author.*****

-----Original Message-----
From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]
On Behalf Of heirdoug at netscape.net
Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 12:16 PM
To: privatejf32 at hotmail.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Blind leading the blind

So Jackie Woolf,

Which way is it?

This is from your post of Dec 11,
http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/2003-December/005982.html
"Jim Jones was the leader of a cult.  David Koresh was the leader of cult.
(Personally, I knew David when he was still calling himself Vernon.  
Believe me, I know the difference between a cult and a genuine church that
worships God.) The two named are absolute examples of what a cult leader and
group is all about.  

Pastor Wilson, the Church of Christ is the absolute example of what a cult
is NOT.  There is NO brainwashing; there is NO physical/pyschological abuse.
There is NO condemnation of the soul if someone choses(sic) to leave.  There
is NO part of Christ Church which worships anyone else but God and HIS word.
The Church of Christ AND Pastor Wilson do answer to people outside of our
town and community.  A cult answers only to itself.

Like you have said in the past "Pastor Wilson, the Church of Christ is the
absolute example of what a cult is NOT.." 
lemeno, Doug

-----Original Message-----
From: J Ford <privatejf32 at hotmail.com>
To: vision2020 at moscow.com
Sent: Tue, 07 Feb 2006 11:32:22 -0800
Subject: [Vision2020] Blind leading the blind

"Note: in Wilson's latest post on "Nameless Others," in which he references
our discusion here (at poohsthink.com), he confuses the distinction between
"an accuser" and someone wanting a common knowledge and public "argument"
addressed. Pushing for someone to answer an argument (or expounding the
available argument) is not the same as coming as someone's accuser. There is
more tangled mess in Wilson's reasoning on these issues as he still tries to
find ways to once again silence the evidence and public arguments against
him, but I thought I'd point out this one problem for now. Thanks. Michael
Metzler" (poohsthink.com) 

"Calling Pastor Wilson a liar is not excatly advancing an argument. Gabriel
Rench " 

And....being a blind follower, no matter how much evidence is shown to you
regarding the obvious corruption within your organization and by your
"pastor", does? 

And to set the record straight: 

"...Doug Wilson, Evan Wilson, and several other men were commissioned to the
work of Faith Fellowship, later to become Christ Church, by the elders of
the Evangelical Free Church of Pullman at a meeting held in the One-Way
Bookstore of Pullman, WA (correction: Crossroads in Moscow) in the
mid-1970s/(80s). The elders of EFC-Pullman at the time included Jim Wilson
and Doug Busby. 
Terry Morin " 

"...now we know that no presbytery "ordained" Wilson." poohsthink.com 

So, Wilson is NOT an ordained minister, pastor, reverend, etc. Just like
someone claiming to be a cop is not a cop just on his or his friend's
say-so. 

Those of us who have left the CC, did so out of clarity of sight and concern
that the Gospel/Word of God was/is being perverted to the use of the speaker
(that being Wilson) for HIS gain, both financially and the sake of his
vanity. Did any of us make that decision rashly or without a great deal of
thought and prayer - no. We did so in order to get away from perversion that
is corruption. That does not make us bitter, angry, resentful or any other
term SOME like to place on us...it makes us followers of God's Word and
wanting that Word to be truthfully espoused by those we turn to for guidence
and teaching. At the CC, that simply is not happening. 

One question I had to ask myself before I left...can Wilson prove his
point(s) by using the ENTIRE Bible or is he using a word, a sentence, a
phrase and ignoring the context of those items? Unfortunately, I and others
have come to the conclusion that Wilson uses only what he needs to prove
himself the apsotle he is claiming to be and therefore the ONLY person that
can speak the Truth and ignoring the rest of what the Bible teaches, both in
the Old and New Testiment. Again, I refer to David Koresh (Vernon Howell),
who claimed he could prove he was the reincarnated King David and King
Cyrus, by the Bible. Anyone care to review how that mess turned out for his
followers? (Point of interest - David/Vernon was a musician who loved
rock/roll; hmmmm - sound familiar?) 

Like I have said in the past "None are so blind as those who refuse to see."

J :] 

P.S. Keep up the good work Michael...you are making a difference. 

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