[Vision2020] Heirdoug's hero

Thu Dec 7 08:20:08 PST 2006

Lemon-O,

Should you be over-taxing your brain like this before having your pioneering brain surgery?  Should you be demonstrating how much functionality your brain has lost?

[1]

You claim that Jesus was descended from David according to Matthew in your post reproduced below.

There is a small problem with such a claim besides the truth of the lineage statements found in Matthew and the contradictory lineage statements found in Luke (http://virtualreligion.net/primer/Background/lineage.html).

"Descended from" means that there was a whole series of "begatings" that started with David and ended with Mary's fruit of the womb, Jesus.  [I am making the hopeful assumption that you know what "begat" means, although evidence from your personal life might be seen to argue otherwise.]

However, the point is simple:  If Jesus is descended from David, then sly old Joseph must have got some begating in himself with Mary.  If not, then David's lineage ended with Joseph, not Jesus.  So if Jesus is descended from David through either of the lineages supplied by Matthew or Luke (or any other lineage), the claim of a virgin birth is contradicted since in order to be descended from David through Joseph, Joseph, like David, must have enjoyed some begating.

Choose your poison:  Virgin birth or descent from David.  Both cannot be true, but both could be false.  Merry Christmas.

[2]

Since your mental acuity has apparently suffered such a piteous decline (hence the urgency of the pending operation) from its former below average pinnacle, you appeared to have forgotten the concept of Modus Ponens.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modus_Ponens

Here's how it applies to the story of David:

[a]    If the Bible is completely true, then all statements and logically valid derivatives of same found in the Bible are true.
[b]    The Bible in the story of David claims that is it OK to punish someone by hideously torturing and killing some innocent person with no moral culpability in the issue, e.g. David's son.
[c]    It is not OK to punish someone by hideously torturing and killing some innocent person with no moral culpability in the issue.
_______________________________________________
[d]    Therefore, there is at least one set of statements and logically valid derivatives of same in the Bible which is not true.
[e]    The Bible is not completely true.

If the Bible is not completely true, then the so far unsolved puzzle remains:  which parts are true (if any), which parts are not, and how can it be decided beyond a reasonable doubt and beyond fantasy which is which.

[Doug, I hope you do not mind the use of color above.  They say that some who suffer from your condition can attend and understand better if the material they are presented with is written using crayons.]

Again all of us hope that your brain surgery will be a success.  However, you may not know it, but operations done near or during the holiday season have a lower success rate and a much greater mortality rate.   But if you live and are able to write coherently, please let us know when and where to send the get well cards.  In the meantime you would do well to avoid overtaxing your brain and embarrassing yourself further.

Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)
deco at moscow.com

PS:  Is any of your medical expenses going to be paid for by the Wilson & Family's Christless Crackpot Cult & Cash Machine?  If not, then maybe a fund raising raffle could be held at the Corner Club.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <heirdoug at netscape.net>
To: <nielsen at uidaho.edu>; <Vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 4:39 PM
Subject: [Vision2020] Heirdoug's hero

> 
> Ralph I did read carefully.
> 
> You seem to think that by pointing out the sins of another that I will 
> be shamed and embarrassed by what the Spirit of the Living God states 
> in the Bible. I will never be embarrassed by all of what God says, be 
> they red or black letters.
> 
> From the genealogy in Matthew we see that God is not embarrassed either 
> using David’s sins to bring about the redemption of Mankind… “The 
> record of the genealogy of Jesus the Messiah, the son of David, the son 
> of Abraham: … Jesse was the father of David the king. David was the 
> father of Solomon by Bathsheba who had been the wife of Uriah.”
> 
> And now the passage that you cited: "After He had removed him, He 
> raised up David to be their king, concerning whom He (God) also 
> testified and said, 'I HAVE FOUND DAVID the son of Jesse, A MAN AFTER 
> MY HEART, who will do all My will.”
> 
> But you stopped short, as you typically do, from quoting the rest of 
> the verse… “From the descendants of this man, according to promise, God 
> has brought to Israel a Savior, Jesus”.
> 
> You should always quote all of the verse in it’s context and not be so 
> embarrassed by the truth that God's Word gives!
> 
> lemeno, Doug!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ralph Nielsen nielsen at uidaho.edu
> _____________________________________________________________________
> 
> 
> The biblical character King David is often
> represented as a great Bible hero.
> 
> * God said, "I have found David the son of
> Jesse a man after mine own heart" (Acts 13:22).
> * "My lord the King [David] ...is as an angel
> of God" (2 Sam 19:27).
> * "My lord [King David] fighteth the battles
> of the LORD, and evil hath not been found in thee
> all thy days" (1 Sam. 25:28).
> * "King David did that which was right in the
> eyes of the LORD, and turned not aside from any
> thing that he commanded him all the days of his
> life save only in the matter of Uriah the
> Hittite" (1 Kings 15:5).
> 
> But let’s look at some of the things King David
> did:
> 
> * He was really good at killing people (1
> Sam. 18:7).
> * King David committed unprovoked aggression
> and mass killing of men and women (1 Sam. 27:8-11).
> * He exposed himself like a pervert (2 Sam. 6:20).
> * He hamstrung over 1,000 horses (2 Sam. 8:4b).
> * He impregnated another man's wife (2 Sam. 11:2-5).
> * He arranged for a man to be killed in battle so he
> could have his wife (2 Sam. 11:14-17).
> * He sent seven of Saul's descendants to be
> impaled as human sacrifices to Yahweh God (2 Sam. 21:1-9).
> 
> As a Bible hero, David is often given as an example of someone
> to look up to. Would you want to identify with him?
> 
> Read the Bible carefully, it’s not what you have been told it is.
> 
> Ralph
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