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<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=4>Lemon-O,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=4>Should you be over-taxing your brain like this
before having your pioneering brain surgery? Should you be demonstrating
how much functionality your brain has lost?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=4>[1]</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=4>You claim that Jesus was descended from David
according to <EM>Matthew</EM> in your post reproduced below.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=4>There is a small problem with such a claim
besides the truth of the lineage statements found in <EM>Matthew</EM> and the
contradictory lineage statements found in <EM>Luke (<A
href="http://virtualreligion.net/primer/Background/lineage.html">http://virtualreligion.net/primer/Background/lineage.html</A>).</EM></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=4>"Descended from" means that there was a whole
series of "begatings" that started with David and ended with Mary's fruit
of the womb, Jesus. [I am making the hopeful assumption that you know what
"begat" means, although evidence from your personal life might be seen to argue
otherwise.]</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=4>However, the point is simple: If Jesus is
descended from David, then sly old Joseph must have got some begating in himself
with Mary. If not, then David's lineage ended with Joseph, not
Jesus. So if Jesus is descended from David through either of the
lineages supplied by <EM>Matthew</EM> or <EM>Luke</EM> (or any other
lineage), the claim of a virgin birth is contradicted since in order to be
descended from David through Joseph, Joseph, like David, must have enjoyed some
begating.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=4>Choose your poison: Virgin birth or descent
from David. Both cannot be true, but both could be false. Merry
Christmas.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=4>[2]</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=4>Since your mental acuity has apparently suffered
such a piteous decline (hence the urgency of the pending operation) from its
former below average pinnacle, you appeared to have forgotten the concept
of <EM>Modus Ponens</EM>.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=4><A
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modus_Ponens">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modus_Ponens</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=4>Here's how it applies to the story of
David:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=4>[a] If the Bible is completely
true, then <STRONG><FONT color=#0000ff>all</FONT></STRONG> statements and
logically valid derivatives of same found in the Bible are true.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=4>[b] The Bible in the story of
David claims that is it OK to punish someone by hideously torturing and killing
some innocent person with no moral culpability in the issue, e.g. David's
son.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=4>[c] It is <STRONG><FONT
color=#ff0000 size=5>not</FONT></STRONG> OK to punish someone by hideously
torturing and killing some innocent person with no moral culpability in the
issue.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana
size=4>_______________________________________________</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=4>[d] Therefore, there is at
least one set of statements and logically valid derivatives of same in the Bible
which is <STRONG><FONT color=#ff0000 size=5>not</FONT></STRONG>
true.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=4>[e] The Bible is <FONT
color=#ff0000 size=5><STRONG>not</STRONG></FONT> completely true.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=4>If the Bible is not completely true, then the so
far unsolved puzzle remains: which parts are true (if any), which parts
are not, and how can it be decided beyond a reasonable doubt and beyond fantasy
which is which.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=4>[Doug, I hope you do not mind the use of color
above. They say that some who suffer from your condition can attend and
understand better if the material they are presented with is written using
crayons.]</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=4>Again all of us hope that your brain surgery will
be a success. However, you may not know it, but operations done near or
during the holiday season have a lower success rate and a much greater mortality
rate. But if you live and are able to write coherently, please let
us know when and where to send the get well cards. In the meantime you
would do well to avoid overtaxing your brain and embarrassing yourself
further.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=4></FONT> </DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=4>
<DIV><BR>Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)<BR><A
href="mailto:deco@moscow.com">deco@moscow.com</A></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>PS: Is any of your medical expenses going to be paid for by
the <STRONG><FONT size=6><FONT face="Olde English">Wilson & Family's
Christless Crackpot Cult & <FONT color=#00bb88>Cash
Machine</FONT></FONT></FONT></STRONG>? If not, then maybe a fund raising
raffle could be held at the Corner Club.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></FONT>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2>----- Original Message ----- </FONT>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2>From: <</FONT><A
href="mailto:heirdoug@netscape.net"><FONT face=Verdana
size=2>heirdoug@netscape.net</FONT></A><FONT face=Verdana
size=2>></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2>To: <</FONT><A
href="mailto:nielsen@uidaho.edu"><FONT face=Verdana
size=2>nielsen@uidaho.edu</FONT></A><FONT face=Verdana size=2>>;
<</FONT><A href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com"><FONT face=Verdana
size=2>Vision2020@moscow.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Verdana
size=2>></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2>Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 4:39
PM</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2>Subject: [Vision2020] Heirdoug's
hero</FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana><BR><FONT size=2></FONT></FONT></DIV><FONT face=Verdana
size=4><FONT size=2>> <BR>> Ralph I did read carefully.<BR>> <BR>>
You seem to think that by pointing out the sins of another that I will <BR>>
be shamed and embarrassed by what the Spirit of the Living God states <BR>>
in the Bible. I will never be embarrassed by all of what God says, be <BR>>
they red or black letters.<BR>> <BR>> From the genealogy in Matthew
we see that God is not embarrassed either <BR>> using David’s sins to bring
about the redemption of Mankind… “The <BR>> record of the genealogy of Jesus
the Messiah, the son of David, the son <BR>> of Abraham: … Jesse was the
father of David the king. David was the <BR>> father of Solomon by Bathsheba
who had been the wife of Uriah.”<BR>> <BR>> And now the passage that you
cited: "After He had removed him, He <BR>> raised up David to be their king,
concerning whom He (God) also <BR>> testified and said, 'I HAVE FOUND DAVID
the son of Jesse, A MAN AFTER <BR>> MY HEART, who will do all My
will.”<BR>> <BR>> But you stopped short, as you typically do, from quoting
the rest of <BR>> the verse… “From the descendants of this man, according to
promise, God <BR>> has brought to Israel a Savior, Jesus”.<BR>> <BR>>
You should always quote all of the verse in it’s context and not be so <BR>>
embarrassed by the truth that God's Word gives!<BR>> <BR>> lemeno,
Doug!<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Ralph
Nielsen nielsen at uidaho.edu<BR>>
_____________________________________________________________________<BR>>
<BR>> <BR>> The biblical character King David is often<BR>> represented
as a great Bible hero.<BR>> <BR>> * God said, "I have found David the son
of<BR>> Jesse a man after mine own heart" (Acts 13:22).<BR>> * "My lord
the King [David] ...is as an angel<BR>> of God" (2 Sam 19:27).<BR>> * "My
lord [King David] fighteth the battles<BR>> of the LORD, and evil hath not
been found in thee<BR>> all thy days" (1 Sam. 25:28).<BR>> * "King David
did that which was right in the<BR>> eyes of the LORD, and turned not aside
from any<BR>> thing that he commanded him all the days of his<BR>> life
save only in the matter of Uriah the<BR>> Hittite" (1 Kings 15:5).<BR>>
<BR>> But let’s look at some of the things King David<BR>> did:<BR>>
<BR>> * He was really good at killing people (1<BR>> Sam. 18:7).<BR>> *
King David committed unprovoked aggression<BR>> and mass killing of men and
women (1 Sam. 27:8-11).<BR>> * He exposed himself like a pervert (2 Sam.
6:20).<BR>> * He hamstrung over 1,000 horses (2 Sam. 8:4b).<BR>> * He
impregnated another man's wife (2 Sam. 11:2-5).<BR>> * He arranged for a man
to be killed in battle so he<BR>> could have his wife (2 Sam.
11:14-17).<BR>> * He sent seven of Saul's descendants to be<BR>> impaled
as human sacrifices to Yahweh God (2 Sam. 21:1-9).<BR>> <BR>> As a Bible
hero, David is often given as an example of someone<BR>> to look up to. Would
you want to identify with him?<BR>> <BR>> Read the Bible carefully, it’s
not what you have been told it is.<BR>> <BR>> Ralph<BR>>
________________________________________________________________________</FONT><BR>>
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