[Vision2020] Fwd: Is there a correlation between "Fore Gras" Killing Babies!

Sun Aug 27 12:36:48 PDT 2006

Joe,

  It is illogical. But not for the reasons you stated. You cut my argument in half and ignored the most important half. 

  It is illogical to be against the unnecessary torture and pain of a  creature, and not be against abortion when it is not necessary, because  it does cause unnecessary torture and pain of a creature, regardless of  how you define that current status of that creature, it feels pain and  is a creature.  

 I am not saying anything about  criminalizing it or not. I am against abortion, but I am for keeping it  legal, for reasons I won't get into in this email. 

 Members  of PeTA, and other animal rights groups main claim in all their  arguments is that the animals feel pain. Well, so do fetuses getting  aborted. If they wish to make the claim that a worm, fish, or bird is a  person and that is why they deserve to live, then I just say let them  make that claim, but I don't think many would agree with the logic of  that argument either. The only sound argument, and the one I agree with  when it comes to treating all life with respect, is that animals should  not experience pain when it is unnecessary in the production of the  goods we are extracting from them or in their death process. Humans may  be animals, but animals are not humans. 

 In fact, there is  more physiological scientificially conclusive evidence that a fetus  experiencing an abortion feels more pain and stress than that of a duck  being forced fed. 

 The second issue I wish you to address,  is that you stated you will not be eating this duck liver because of  their mistreatment. Well, does that also mean that you are going to  stop eating fish, chicken, pigs, turkey, and cows (beef)? They are also  horribly tortured and suffer for much longer periods of time then the  15-18 days of forced fed ducks and geese. Or is it just easier to pick  on one business serving one bird? How about the senseless torture of  lobster and shellfish? Or for that matter protesting establishments  that sell fly swatters, fishing tackle, and wasp spray? 

  Best,

  _DJA

Joe Campbell <joekc at adelphia.net> wrote:  Donovan,

You wrote: "it is illogical to be opposed to the torture of animals and be for abortion." This is incorrect. 

Some  animal rights activists think that animals are persons -- have rights  -- yet also believe that no fetus is a person. You might disagree with  this view (I do) but it is not "illogical." 

Also, it is not  illogical to suppose that the prolonged torture of any animal is wrong  but that it is sometimes permissible to kill a fetus, for instance when  the mother's life is in danger. One might hold this view and be "for  abortion" in the sense that one is against making abortion illegal.  This is close to my own view and it is not "illogical."

One last  comment which didn't occur to me when I wrote my previous post. It is  silly to talk about being "for abortion" or "against abortion."  Abortion is just the killing of a fetus. No one would ever say that  they were "for killing" and few people are willing to live with the  consequences of being "against killing."

Best, Joe

---- Donovan Arnold  wrote: 

=============
Doug makes a good point.

  If you are opposed to the killing and/or torture of any animal, which  is the bases for fighting against eating some types of animals. Why not  be against abortion? Even if it is not a "human being" to some people's  definitions, it certainly can feel pain and suffer as it is being  aborted. I don't expect an answer from that because it is illogical to  be opposed to the torture of animals and be for abortion.

  Best,

  _DJA

Andreas Schou  wrote:  On 8/26/06, heirdoug at netscape.net  wrote:
>
> Joe,
>
> I'm still wondering if you have had any more thoughts about my
> comparison and my challenge to you, Saundra and Megan and any others
> who still think that human life begins after birth.

Doug --

If there is a moral equivalency between a fetus and an infant, why are
the Biblical punishments for causing the death of an fetus and causing
the death of a child so radically different?

-- ACS

> Time to put your money where your mouth is. It's only $50.00 a month
> and I know that they could use it.
>
> Doug!
>
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