[Vision2020] Nick, Saundra and the Princess

Tony Simpson tonytime at clearwire.net
Mon Aug 14 13:33:49 PDT 2006 

Keely,

My post which offended you was merely a request for a specific response to 
an argument rather than an ad hominem (sp?) tirade.  This was a reasonable 
request.  As an intellectual you should appreciate my concern here.  But you 
were defending a friend or two, so your heart was in the right place.

Curious about two things you touched upon......  1)  Why do you condemn 
Tanaka as un Christ--like because she uses on occasion, "snotty rejoinders", 
when you, Keely, have just finished referring to Tanaka in a decidedly un 
Christian and "snotty" manner?  Consistency is crucial Keely.

2)  The distatste expressed by you and crew on this forum for views 
expressed anonymously would seem to preclude your consideration of half of 
what you read in the newspaper and periodicals.  They rely heavily on 
anonymous sources.  Do you summarily disregard "news" reports relying in 
whole on charges leveled by thoose who would "prefer to remain anonymous"? 
Just seeking clarification.

Enjoy the palouse summer.  I am insanely jealous.
--Tony
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "keely emerinemix" <kjajmix1 at msn.com>
To: <tonytime at clearwire.net>; <sslund at adelphia.net>
Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 9:00 AM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Nick, Saundra and the Princess


> As someone who owes her very life to Christ's atonement on the cross --  
> yep, body piercing saved my life! -- I have a few thoughts:
>
> I've been staying out of this thread not because of disinterest -- some of 
> you may recall that I have rather strong views on religion -- but because 
> I'm up to mine in alligators trying to coordinate the remodelling of a 
> house, find a renter for our apartment, and accommodate yet another wave 
> of houseguests.  It's one of the few times in my life when I've been too 
> busy to wade in to something that matters greatly to me.  But before the 
> painter requires my attention this morning, I'd like to make a few points, 
> provoked as I am by Tony's response to Saundra, below.
>
> It shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone that I am in near total 
> agreement with the theology espoused by Princess LackingHuevos, who, in 
> his/her anonymity, has done an able job of defending the classic, orthodox 
> Christian doctrine of Christ's atonement on the cross.  I could, however, 
> do without the Princess' continued harangue toward my friend Nick Gier, 
> who doesn't agree with the classic, orthodox Christian doctrine of 
> Christ's atonement -- 
> in fact, he finds it rather off-putting.  Why this surprises, much less 
> offends, the Princess would be puzzling were it not for said royalty's 
> history of disrespect and rudeness toward those who hold to beliefs he 
> doesn't, both from inside or outside of the fold.  I think it's clear to 
> all that while Sushitushi is an apt defender of the doctrines of the 
> faith, the tone taken indicates that he/she is also a poor imitator of the 
> One those doctrines point to.
>
> Nick Gier isn't a Christian.  That's not a judgment on my part; it's not 
> to say that he's not kind, gracious, loving, gentle and merciful.  He is 
> all of those things, as are many people who don't claim Christ as their 
> Savior.  Those who call on the name of the Lord Jesus are rightfully 
> counted as Christians, and those who don't, aren't.  If Nick has made it 
> clear that he has found satisfaction and solace in other faith traditions 
> apart from the essential doctrines of Christianity, then why would anyone 
> who claims to be a Christian take such a nasty approach in acknowledging 
> their doctrinal differences?  This isn't the pastor of First Evangelical 
> Christian Community Tabernacle who's denying the historic teachings of the 
> faith -- that would be worrisome -- but a scholar who is not a professing 
> Christian.  Nick Gier isn't an "enemy" who needs to be contained or 
> disarmed.  He's a man who believes that the things Sushitushi believes are 
> lacking in reason, distasteful, or, for whatever reason, simply not for 
> him.  There is nothing about that that should invite snotty, mocking 
> rejoinders from those who do believe.  Nick and I are friends; he admires 
> me and I admire him, even as we disagree on virtually every point of 
> evangelical theology.  God forbid I should attempt to assert my 
> "rightness" apart from common decency or Spirit-filled righteousness.
>
> Now, I don't know if the Princess is Doug Jones, Chris Witmer, Ben Merkle 
> or any other leader or defender of the Kirk.  I don't much care.  I do 
> lament that the Princess is unable to fairly and honestly belly up to the 
> bar by using his/her real name, but I suppose it's tempting to want to 
> revel in rudeness without the messy consequences of doing so without the 
> cloak of anonymity.  His arguments might be mature and well-thought out, 
> but it's a little difficult to be swayed by someone who can't bring 
> him/herself to using their given moniker.  And I'm assuming it's someone 
> from the Kirk, because of the fervor of support for the leadership and, 
> sadly, because of the cogency of the argument -- most evangelical churches 
> have not raised an army of able, apt defenders of the Gospel, and if they 
> did, I imagine they'd be glowing with pride and unable to do so 
> anonymously.
>
> In my reading over the weekend, I came upon something that I think puts it 
> all into context far better than I have, and will perhaps be a benefit to 
> those who practice imprecatory prayer, are dismissive of their theological 
> "enemies," and exalt classical academia over common decency:
>
> "Bless those who persecute you, don't curse them, pray that God will bless 
> them.  Be happy with those who are happy, and weep with those who weep. 
> Live in harmony with each other.  Don't be too proud to enjoy the company 
> of ordinary people.  And don't think you know it all!  Never pay back evil 
> with more evil.  Do things in such a way that everyone can see you are 
> honorable. Do all that you can to live in peace with everyone . . . " 
> (Romans 12:14-18)
>
> keely
>
>
>
>
> From: "Tony Simpson" <tonytime at clearwire.net>
> To: "Saundra Lund" <sslund at adelphia.net>
> CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] True Muslims and True Americans
> Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 02:08:38 -0700
>
> WOW SAUNDRA, you rail on for the bulk of your post at Taro Tanaka without
> ever ONCE addressing the very thoughtful arguments she presented.  What's
> the problem Dear?  Out of your intellectual league?
>
> Fed up with the enemies of reason,  --Tony
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Saundra Lund" <sslund at adelphia.net>
> To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Sent: Saturday, August 12, 2006 9:42 AM
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] True Muslims and True Americans
>
>
> > "Taro Tankara" aka "Princess Sushitushi" aka "Princess Camera-Shy" aka
> > "Princess Who Rushes in Where Trespassers Fear to Tread" aka "Prince Pay
> > No
> > Attention to the Man Behind the Curtain" aka "Prince Late-for-Dinner" 
> > aka
> > "Prince in One Hour or You Don't Pay!" aka "Princess
> > Putnotthytrustinprinces" aka "Prince Albasilas Monachus" aka "The
> Princess
> > Formerly Known as Prince" aka "Prince McPauper" aka "Princess Forlornia,
> > Ever Hopeful Frog Kisser" aka "Shining Prince Stanley Nicholson Genji"
> aka
> > "Prince Eduardo Cigarro" wrote:
> > "I'm almost afraid to reply to Nick, because each time he comes back 
> > with
> > something nuttier than before."
> >
> > No, sorry -- that would be Taro Tanaka with the multitude of alias, none
> > of
> > which are real names.
> >
> > This V2020 poster reminds me of one of the Edna's -- the one who 
> > couldn't
> > decide whether to post as a male or female.
> >
> > One who hasn't made the leap of faith to accept God's grace might
> conclude
> > that it is Christianity, rather than cowards afraid to sign their own
> > names,
> > that causes gender confusion  ;-)
> >
> >
> > JMHO,
> > Saundra Lund
> > Moscow, ID
> >
> > The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to 
> > do
> > nothing.
> > - Edmund Burke
> >
> > ***** Original material contained herein is Copyright 2006, Saundra 
> > Lund.
> > Do not copy, forward, excerpt, or reproduce outside the Vision 2020 
> > forum
> > without the express written permission of the author.*****
> >
> >
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>
>
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