[Vision2020] Nick, Saundra and the Princess
Nick Gier
ngier at uidaho.edu
Mon Aug 14 11:43:24 PDT 2006
Greetings:
I would like to thank Keely for her post, also the one before about the
phony ranking of NSA. As I have said before, I judge Christians by their
conduct not for the details of their belief. Didn't Jesus say: "By their
fruits ye shall know them?" By this standard Keely is a true
Christian. Unfortunately, the conduct of many of the area's conservative
"Christians" is atrocious. Their fruit is rotten.
If I had more time, I would research all the various versions of Christian
atonement. (Forgive me if I'm a little rusty, but I took my qualifying
exams 34 years ago, and haven't ever taught systematic theology, primarily
because I was hired by a philosophy department.) I doubt if any Christian
has got atonement right, because the best theologians have not agreed. And
many of them do not accept the idea of actual blood sacrifice. The
Princess has admitted that crucifixion is a bloodless form of execution, so
I will let my case rest on that obvious fact for now.
If I hate Christianity, as the Princess claims, then why I am sponsoring,
with a substantial monthly stipend, an Indian Christian student for his
PhD? Why did I before that support another Indian Christian student for
his PhD in counseling? Why would I defend evangelical colleges against
Wilson's nasty criticisms of them?
Also, I challenge anyone who reads my book God, Reason, and the
Evangelicals to then say that I hate Christianity. I own the copyright and
you can read it at www.class.uidaho.edu/ngier/gre.htm. I praise many
evangelical philosophers and theologians in that book.
I also repeat the observation made by several students, who after taking my
philosophy of religion class, thought that I was a Christian. Someone on
the list quipped that it is a sign of how deceptive I was, but I was hoping
that most of you would see it as the sign of how fair I was to Christian
theology. Wouldn't my "hatred" have somehow shown through?
Finally, because of the fact that my department did not have any travel
funds (they dried up in the late 1980s), I have was lucky to get a few
graduate school travel grants and a few humanities grants. So I have
financed most of my own research trips out of my own pocket. That includes
two sabbatical years in Denmark and two sabbaticals and one other research
trip to India. I have also paid for travel to most of my regional and
national conferences.
Thank the gods for tax deductions for professional expenses! And thanks to
the Canadian government that my daughter will have almost full funding for
all the research that she does in her new job at the University of
Alberta. Her travel to Vienna for dissertation research was fully funded
by Duke University and her current research at the Library of Congress and
National Archives is financed by the Canadian government.
Thanks for letting me set the record straight.
Nick Gier, the "Nutty Professor"
I'm now switching to pecans, because they are supposed to lower LDLs the best.
>That was well said. I agree with 95% of what you say. I do have a problem
>with Nick Gier however. That is the fact he never misses a chance to take a
>dig at Christianity or our culture. Oh sure, he professes to care and to be
>ever so tolerant but after reading several of his posts it becomes obvious
>that he is not.
>
>I know I should just ignore it and move on but his self-richetous banter and
>bragging about all the places he has visited (likely at the expense of the
>taxpayers), gets under my skin. I suppose we all have certain types who are
>capable of lighting our fuse and Nick is that type to me. Maybe it is
>because I have met so many like him who are in a position to pollute young
>minds with their insolence toward God, country and all that is good. (my
>opinion)
>
>I pray the stresses of your life lessen and allow you more freedom with your
>time.
>
>Dick S.
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "keely emerinemix" <kjajmix1 at msn.com>
>To: <tonytime at clearwire.net>; <sslund at adelphia.net>
>Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 9:00 AM
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Nick, Saundra and the Princess
>
>
> > As someone who owes her very life to Christ's atonement on the cross --
>yep,
> > body piercing saved my life! -- I have a few thoughts:
> >
> > I've been staying out of this thread not because of disinterest -- some of
> > you may recall that I have rather strong views on religion -- but because
> > I'm up to mine in alligators trying to coordinate the remodelling of a
> > house, find a renter for our apartment, and accommodate yet another wave
>of
> > houseguests. It's one of the few times in my life when I've been too busy
> > to wade in to something that matters greatly to me. But before the
>painter
> > requires my attention this morning, I'd like to make a few points,
>provoked
> > as I am by Tony's response to Saundra, below.
> >
> > It shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone that I am in near total
>agreement
> > with the theology espoused by Princess LackingHuevos, who, in his/her
> > anonymity, has done an able job of defending the classic, orthodox
>Christian
> > doctrine of Christ's atonement on the cross. I could, however, do without
> > the Princess' continued harangue toward my friend Nick Gier, who doesn't
> > agree with the classic, orthodox Christian doctrine of Christ's
>atonement --
> > in fact, he finds it rather off-putting. Why this surprises, much less
> > offends, the Princess would be puzzling were it not for said royalty's
> > history of disrespect and rudeness toward those who hold to beliefs he
> > doesn't, both from inside or outside of the fold. I think it's clear to
>all
> > that while Sushitushi is an apt defender of the doctrines of the faith,
>the
> > tone taken indicates that he/she is also a poor imitator of the One those
> > doctrines point to.
> >
> > Nick Gier isn't a Christian. That's not a judgment on my part; it's not
>to
> > say that he's not kind, gracious, loving, gentle and merciful. He is all
>of
> > those things, as are many people who don't claim Christ as their Savior.
> > Those who call on the name of the Lord Jesus are rightfully counted as
> > Christians, and those who don't, aren't. If Nick has made it clear that
>he
> > has found satisfaction and solace in other faith traditions apart from the
> > essential doctrines of Christianity, then why would anyone who claims to
>be
> > a Christian take such a nasty approach in acknowledging their doctrinal
> > differences? This isn't the pastor of First Evangelical Christian
>Community
> > Tabernacle who's denying the historic teachings of the faith -- that would
> > be worrisome -- but a scholar who is not a professing Christian. Nick
>Gier
> > isn't an "enemy" who needs to be contained or disarmed. He's a man who
> > believes that the things Sushitushi believes are lacking in reason,
> > distasteful, or, for whatever reason, simply not for him. There is
>nothing
> > about that that should invite snotty, mocking rejoinders from those who do
> > believe. Nick and I are friends; he admires me and I admire him, even as
>we
> > disagree on virtually every point of evangelical theology. God forbid I
> > should attempt to assert my "rightness" apart from common decency or
> > Spirit-filled righteousness.
> >
> > Now, I don't know if the Princess is Doug Jones, Chris Witmer, Ben Merkle
>or
> > any other leader or defender of the Kirk. I don't much care. I do lament
> > that the Princess is unable to fairly and honestly belly up to the bar by
> > using his/her real name, but I suppose it's tempting to want to revel in
> > rudeness without the messy consequences of doing so without the cloak of
> > anonymity. His arguments might be mature and well-thought out, but it's a
> > little difficult to be swayed by someone who can't bring him/herself to
> > using their given moniker. And I'm assuming it's someone from the Kirk,
> > because of the fervor of support for the leadership and, sadly, because of
> > the cogency of the argument -- most evangelical churches have not raised
>an
> > army of able, apt defenders of the Gospel, and if they did, I imagine
>they'd
> > be glowing with pride and unable to do so anonymously.
> >
> > In my reading over the weekend, I came upon something that I think puts it
> > all into context far better than I have, and will perhaps be a benefit to
> > those who practice imprecatory prayer, are dismissive of their theological
> > "enemies," and exalt classical academia over common decency:
> >
> > "Bless those who persecute you, don't curse them, pray that God will bless
> > them. Be happy with those who are happy, and weep with those who weep.
> > Live in harmony with each other. Don't be too proud to enjoy the company
>of
> > ordinary people. And don't think you know it all! Never pay back evil
>with
> > more evil. Do things in such a way that everyone can see you are
>honorable.
> > Do all that you can to live in peace with everyone . . . " (Romans
> > 12:14-18)
> >
> > keely
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: "Tony Simpson" <tonytime at clearwire.net>
> > To: "Saundra Lund" <sslund at adelphia.net>
> > CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] True Muslims and True Americans
> > Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 02:08:38 -0700
> >
> > WOW SAUNDRA, you rail on for the bulk of your post at Taro Tanaka without
> > ever ONCE addressing the very thoughtful arguments she presented. What's
> > the problem Dear? Out of your intellectual league?
> >
> > Fed up with the enemies of reason, --Tony
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Saundra Lund" <sslund at adelphia.net>
> > To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> > Sent: Saturday, August 12, 2006 9:42 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] True Muslims and True Americans
> >
> >
> > > "Taro Tankara" aka "Princess Sushitushi" aka "Princess Camera-Shy" aka
> > > "Princess Who Rushes in Where Trespassers Fear to Tread" aka "Prince
>Pay
> > > No
> > > Attention to the Man Behind the Curtain" aka "Prince Late-for-Dinner"
>aka
> > > "Prince in One Hour or You Don't Pay!" aka "Princess
> > > Putnotthytrustinprinces" aka "Prince Albasilas Monachus" aka "The
> > Princess
> > > Formerly Known as Prince" aka "Prince McPauper" aka "Princess
>Forlornia,
> > > Ever Hopeful Frog Kisser" aka "Shining Prince Stanley Nicholson Genji"
> > aka
> > > "Prince Eduardo Cigarro" wrote:
> > > "I'm almost afraid to reply to Nick, because each time he comes back
>with
> > > something nuttier than before."
> > >
> > > No, sorry -- that would be Taro Tanaka with the multitude of alias,
>none
> > > of
> > > which are real names.
> > >
> > > This V2020 poster reminds me of one of the Edna's -- the one who
>couldn't
> > > decide whether to post as a male or female.
> > >
> > > One who hasn't made the leap of faith to accept God's grace might
> > conclude
> > > that it is Christianity, rather than cowards afraid to sign their own
> > > names,
> > > that causes gender confusion ;-)
> > >
> > >
> > > JMHO,
> > > Saundra Lund
> > > Moscow, ID
> > >
> > > The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to
>do
> > > nothing.
> > > - Edmund Burke
> > >
> > > ***** Original material contained herein is Copyright 2006, Saundra
>Lund.
> > > Do not copy, forward, excerpt, or reproduce outside the Vision 2020
>forum
> > > without the express written permission of the author.*****
> > >
> > >
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"Truth is the summit of being; justice is the application of it to human
affairs."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
"Abstract truth has no value unless it incarnates in human beings who
represent it, by proving their readiness to die for it."
--Mohandas Gandhi
"Modern physics has taught us that the nature of any system cannot be
discovered by dividing it into its component parts and studying each part
by itself. . . .We must keep our attention fixed on the whole and on the
interconnection between the parts. The same is true of our intellectual
life. It is impossible to make a clear cut between science, religion, and
art. The whole is never equal simply to the sum of its various parts."
--Max Planck
Nicholas F. Gier
Professor Emeritus, Department of Philosophy, University of Idaho
1037 Colt Rd., Moscow, ID 83843
http://users.adelphia.net/~nickgier/home.htm
208-882-9212/FAX 885-8950
President, Idaho Federation of Teachers, AFL-CIO
http://users.adelphia.net/~nickgier/ift.htm
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