[Vision2020] True Muslims and True Americans

[Paul Rumelhart]

This is in response to both Tony and Taro.

In my opinion, we need some compartmentalization here.  We are talking 
about a few different things that are  getting intertwined together.  I 
can't speak for Nick, but here is how I break things down:

1.  Respecting a person's right to believe in a particular religion.  I 
don't have to like a particular religion to respect the right that an 
individual has to believe as they wish.  The religion can be as mean and 
nasty as they like, or it can be all fluffy bunnies and flowers.  
Doesn't matter.  I respect the fact that they have the right to believe 
as they wish.

2.  Respecting a particular religion's teachings.  I can respect that a 
person has the right to believe in a particular religion even if I don't 
respect that religion's teachings.  For example, I don't respect 
Luciferian Satanism.  However, I respect a person's right to believe as 
they wish.

3. Respecting actions taken that derive from a particular belief.  Here 
is where the line really is.  If a Satanist sacrifices someone, they've 
crossed the line and should be punished.  If a Satanist is known to be 
about to sacrifice someone, they should be stopped and tried in a court 
of law.  That goes for Muslims who interpret the Qu'ran to say that they 
should kill Americans as well as Christians who think God has told them 
to kill an abortion doctor.  If you cross this line in the other 
direction, you are into the realm of Thought Crimes.  If there is one 
inalienable right, it's the right to think what you want to think.  The 
inside of your head is sacrosanct.  It's when thoughts become actions 
that society has the right to intervene.

Paul

P.S.  That's enough contrary opinions for today.  I'll stop now.

Tony Simpson wrote:

>All hail the Princess!  Tanaka nails it again.  She apparently finds all 
>these contemporary liberal platitudes about respect, tolerance, etc. as 
>obnoxious and condescending as I do.  It would be ok if they didn't take 
>such an air--headed, no exceptions approach to human relations.
>
>Some religious teachings are repugnant and deserving of rebuke, not respect. 
>Tolerance of the intolerable is inappropriate.  Moral relativism, as Allan 
>Bloom so brilliantly elucidated, is a childish and unrealistic notion.
>
>This may come as a shock to Teach Gier, but there is such a thing as right 
>and wrong.  The first amendment does not protect those who choose to line 
>their pockets producing material which rots at the fabric of civilization. 
>And some religious beliefs are quite simply barbaric and horrendous.
>
>As thinking, evolving creatures of intellect we have to make judgments, 
>distinctions.  We have to discriminate between what is logical and fair and 
>what is tyrannical and oppressive.  We must not retreat behind a wall of 
>comfortable ignorance where we are not required to make such judgments. 
>Where a rigid adherence to dogma precludes free and enlivened debate.  In 
>this era it is as much the liberal who clings to his dogma of air--headed PC 
>horse shit as it is the conservative Christian uncomfortable engaging the 
>skeptical in dialog.
>
>Taro, thanks for your thoughtful contributions.  Your impatience with your 
>intellectual inferiors is admirable.
>
>Have a wonderful weekend,  --Tony
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "Taro Tanaka" <taro_tanaka at hotmail.com>
>To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 1:26 PM
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] True Muslims and True Americans
>
>
>  
>
>>nickgier wrote:
>>
>>[[ Respecting all religious beliefs?  It is a no brainer!!! ]]
>>
>>Truer words were never spoken. Only a person with no brains could "respect
>>all religious beliefs" -- either brainless or a HYPOCRITICAL ("There are
>>some chilling parallels between Christian and Islamic fundamentalists")
>>LIAR.
>>
>>I'm all for respecting all human beings as the image-bearers of the living
>>God. But don't insult anyone's intelligence by spewing nonsense about
>>respecting all religious beliefs. It isn't even possible to respect all
>>religious beliefs and as a simple matter of fact nobody does.
>>
>>Here are just a few of a vast number of religious beliefs that are not
>>worthy of respect, and I'm sure anyone can think of more with no 
>>difficulty:
>>
>>* The religious beliefs of Jim Jones in the Guyana jungle
>>* The religious beliefs behind the custom of burning alive newly widowed
>>women in India
>>* The religious beliefs behind the practice of human sacrifice in ancient
>>Mesoamerican cultures
>>
>>Instead of lying about respecting all religious beliefs, how about
>>respecting honesty and truthfulness for a change?
>>
>>-- Princess Sushitushi
>>
>>_________________________________________________________________
>>Don't just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
>>http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
>>
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>>    
>>
>
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