[Vision2020] Joan Opyr on 4/22/2006
Art Deco
deco at moscow.com
Thu Apr 27 08:58:30 PDT 2006
Cowboy Dick,
My real name appeared at the beginning of this thread:
Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)
deco at moscow.com
Since you are relatively new to the forum, perhaps your oversight is understandable.
However, I repeat a question and hope for a real response, not a near emotional breakdown:
How do you know that the Bible is the word of some alleged God?
You claim in your posts that the Bible is the word of some alleged god. In doing so you are making a knowledge claim -- claiming that certain statements are true of reality.
A knowledge claim needs to be supported by evidence, especially if that claim is to used to restrict the freedom and joy of others.
If I said that pollution from the Potlatch Industries operation in Lewiston elevates the risk of cancer for Lewiston residents, you would expect and would be justified in your expectation that I produce clear, cogent, and verifiable evidence that such a knowledge claim is true. That is exactly what is being asked of your knowledge claim that the Bible is the word of some alleged God.
After claiming that the Bible is "the word of God," you then use only your interpretation of words from the Bible to attempt to justify your imposition of behavioral standards on others.
You see the problem: If you cannot justify your underlying knowledge claim, then you cannot justify the moral pronouncements and their restrictions on individuals' personal freedom that are based on that unsupported knowledge claim.
More than two-thirds of the population of the world do not agree the Bible is the word of some god. Again: What clear, cogent, verifiable evidence do you offer for the truth of your knowledge claim that the Bible is the word of some alleged God?
Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)
deco at moscow.com
----- Original Message -----
From: rvrcowboy
To: Vision2020
Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 9:44 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Joan Opyr on 4/22/2006
As I said earlier, Mr. Deco... or Twinkletoes.. or whoever you are.. perhaps Batman.. It is just too difficult to take you seriously when you don't even have a real name.
You obviously have no basis in the Bible to begin with in the Bible and also no respect for it, so why do you care anyway? Or do you just like to join the fray to read your own babble?
I do believe in the word of God... not some alleged God, but the God of the Bible. If you don't believe, they it shouldn't matter to you to begin with.
----- Original Message -----
From: Art Deco
To: Vision 2020
Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 9:11 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Joan Opyr on 4/22/2006
Cowboy Dick says:
"I am not even interested in the moral issue here, only the use of God's word to justify Joan's moral conscience pangs."
Perhaps Cowboy Dick you can give us some valuable instruction here. How do you know that the Bible is the word of some alleged God?
W.
----- Original Message -----
From: "rvrcowboy" <rvrcowboy at clearwire.net>
To: "Vision2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 6:53 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Joan Opyr on 4/22/2006
>J Ford,
>
> Why is it everytime a straight person questions someone's position on
> homosexuality they get the same comeback? I.E. Oh, you are so obsessed
> with the gay lifestyle.... blah, blah, blah...
>
> I would have questioned Joan's opinion on anything else I thought she was
> totally wrong about also. If you are going to use the Bible to justify your
> lifestyle in a public forum you must expect comment. After all, isn't that
> why she posted it here to begin with?
>
> None of your comparrisons hold any water in this discussion. You act as
> though no one has the right to any different opinion, other than a liberal
> one. Do you believe only homosexuals are allowed to discuss, or question
> the topic?
>
> Homosexuality is a moral issue. Mistating the Bible for the purposes of
> justifying ones own guilt is something different to me. I am not even
> interested in the moral issue here, only the use of God's word to justify
> Joan's moral conscience pangs.
>
> There can be no winner in this argument. Opinions are just that...
> opinions, everyone has one and argument won't change it. \
>
> Dick
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "J Ford" <privatejf32 at hotmail.com>
> To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 5:38 PM
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Joan Opyr on 4/22/2006
>
>
>> Hey...let's not go there, ok? Not cool.
>>
>> The discussion should stay on the fact that these guys seem overly
> obsessed
>> with the sexual habits of people they don't know and don't have much
> regard
>> for. Sorta like Hitler having no regard for the Jewish or the White
>> Southerners for the Blacks (in the Slavery Days AS IT TRULY WAS.)
>>
>> J :]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >From: Scott Dredge <sdredge at yahoo.com>
>> >To: Vision2020 <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>> >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Joan Opyr on 4/22/2006
>> >Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 17:18:45 -0700 (PDT)
>> >
>> >The humorous thing, rvcowboy, is that you are the one who made the
>> >homosexual connection to the passage in the first place. Joan didn't.
> You
>> >went that direction all by yourself. And now you're saying that only a
>> >sick mind would do such a thing.
>> >
>> >Why are you, and the Dougs, and Dale, and Ed so obsessed with
> homosexualty?
>> > Even creepier (at least to me), why are you guys so obsessed with male
>> >gay sex? I could kinda understand if you were excited about the idea of
>> >two women getting it on.
>> >
>> >-Scott
>> >
>> >rvrcowboy <rvrcowboy at clearwire.net> wrote: 4 and Jonathan
>> >strippeth himself of the upper robe which is upon him, and giveth it to
>> >David, and his long robe, even unto his sword, and unto his bow, and
> unto
>> >his girdle.
>> >
>> > Sorry to inform you, Art, but this is simply symbolic of the fact
>> >Jonathan is conceeding his royal robe, sword, bow and gear to David in
>> >recognition his father is naming David as king.
>> >
>> > It has nothing to do with homosexuality and you would have to have a
>> >sick mind to believe so.
>> >
>> > Dick
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: Art Deco
>> > To: Vision 2020
>> > Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 3:03 PM
>> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Joan Opyr on 4/22/2006
>> >
>> >
>> > Dearest Dick,
>> >
>> > Here is the actual text from Young's Literal Translation of the
>> >Bible. Sounds a little suggestive to me.
>> >
>> >
>> > 1 Samuel 18
>> >
>> > 1 And it cometh to pass, when he finisheth to speak unto
> Saul,
>> >that the soul of Jonathan hath been bound to the soul of David, and
>> >Jonathan loveth him as his own soul.
>> >
>> > 2 And Saul taketh him on that day, and hath not permitted
> him
>> >to turn back to the house of his father.
>> >
>> > 3 And Jonathan maketh�also David�a covenant, because he
>> >loveth him as his own soul,
>> >
>> > 4 and Jonathan strippeth himself of the upper robe which is
>> >upon him, and giveth it to David, and his long robe, even unto his
>> >sword, and unto his bow, and unto his girdle.
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_____________________________________________________
List services made available by First Step Internet,
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
http://www.fsr.net
mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
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_____________________________________________________
List services made available by First Step Internet,
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
http://www.fsr.net
mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_____________________________________________________
List services made available by First Step Internet,
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
http://www.fsr.net
mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cowboy Dick,
My real name appeared at the beginning of this thread:
Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)
deco at moscow.com
Since you are relatively new to the forum, perhaps your oversight is understandable.
However, I repeat a question and hope for a real response, not a near emotional breakdown:
How do you know that the Bible is the word of some alleged God?
You claim in your posts that the Bible is the word of some alleged god. In doing so you are making a knowledge claim -- claiming that certain statements are true of reality.
A knowledge claim needs to be supported by evidence, especially if that claim is to used to restrict the freedom and joy of others. If I said that pollution from the Potlatch Industries operation in Lewiston elevates the risk of cancer for Lewiston residents, you would expect and would be justified in your expectation that I produce evidence of such a knowledge claim.
You then use your intrepretation of words from the Bible to attempt to justify your imposition of behavioral standards on others.
More than two-thirds of the population of the world do not agree the the Bible is the word of some god. What evidence do you offer for the truth of your knowledge claim that the Bible is the word of some alleged God?
Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)
deco at moscow.com
----- Original Message -----
From: rvrcowboy
To: Vision2020
Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 9:44 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Joan Opyr on 4/22/2006
As I said earlier, Mr. Deco... or Twinkletoes.. or whoever you are.. perhaps Batman.. It is just too difficult to take you seriously when you don't even have a real name.
You obviously have no basis in the Bible to begin with in the Bible and also no respect for it, so why do you care anyway? Or do you just like to join the fray to read your own babble?
I do believe in the word of God... not some alleged God, but the God of the Bible. If you don't believe, they it shouldn't matter to you to begin with.
----- Original Message -----
From: Art Deco
To: Vision 2020
Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 9:11 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Joan Opyr on 4/22/2006
Cowboy Dick says:
"I am not even interested in the moral issue here, only the use of God's word to justify Joan's moral conscience pangs."
Perhaps Cowboy Dick you can give us some valuable instruction here. How do you know that the Bible is the word of some alleged God?
W.
----- Original Message -----
From: "rvrcowboy" <rvrcowboy at clearwire.net>
To: "Vision2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 6:53 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Joan Opyr on 4/22/2006
>J Ford,
>
> Why is it everytime a straight person questions someone's position on
> homosexuality they get the same comeback? I.E. Oh, you are so obsessed
> with the gay lifestyle.... blah, blah, blah...
>
> I would have questioned Joan's opinion on anything else I thought she was
> totally wrong about also. If you are going to use the Bible to justify your
> lifestyle in a public forum you must expect comment. After all, isn't that
> why she posted it here to begin with?
>
> None of your comparrisons hold any water in this discussion. You act as
> though no one has the right to any different opinion, other than a liberal
> one. Do you believe only homosexuals are allowed to discuss, or question
> the topic?
>
> Homosexuality is a moral issue. Mistating the Bible for the purposes of
> justifying ones own guilt is something different to me. I am not even
> interested in the moral issue here, only the use of God's word to justify
> Joan's moral conscience pangs.
>
> There can be no winner in this argument. Opinions are just that...
> opinions, everyone has one and argument won't change it. \
>
> Dick
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "J Ford" <privatejf32 at hotmail.com>
> To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 5:38 PM
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Joan Opyr on 4/22/2006
>
>
>> Hey...let's not go there, ok? Not cool.
>>
>> The discussion should stay on the fact that these guys seem overly
> obsessed
>> with the sexual habits of people they don't know and don't have much
> regard
>> for. Sorta like Hitler having no regard for the Jewish or the White
>> Southerners for the Blacks (in the Slavery Days AS IT TRULY WAS.)
>>
>> J :]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >From: Scott Dredge <sdredge at yahoo.com>
>> >To: Vision2020 <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>> >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Joan Opyr on 4/22/2006
>> >Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 17:18:45 -0700 (PDT)
>> >
>> >The humorous thing, rvcowboy, is that you are the one who made the
>> >homosexual connection to the passage in the first place. Joan didn't.
> You
>> >went that direction all by yourself. And now you're saying that only a
>> >sick mind would do such a thing.
>> >
>> >Why are you, and the Dougs, and Dale, and Ed so obsessed with
> homosexualty?
>> > Even creepier (at least to me), why are you guys so obsessed with male
>> >gay sex? I could kinda understand if you were excited about the idea of
>> >two women getting it on.
>> >
>> >-Scott
>> >
>> >rvrcowboy <rvrcowboy at clearwire.net> wrote: 4 and Jonathan
>> >strippeth himself of the upper robe which is upon him, and giveth it to
>> >David, and his long robe, even unto his sword, and unto his bow, and
> unto
>> >his girdle.
>> >
>> > Sorry to inform you, Art, but this is simply symbolic of the fact
>> >Jonathan is conceeding his royal robe, sword, bow and gear to David in
>> >recognition his father is naming David as king.
>> >
>> > It has nothing to do with homosexuality and you would have to have a
>> >sick mind to believe so.
>> >
>> > Dick
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: Art Deco
>> > To: Vision 2020
>> > Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 3:03 PM
>> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Joan Opyr on 4/22/2006
>> >
>> >
>> > Dearest Dick,
>> >
>> > Here is the actual text from Young's Literal Translation of the
>> >Bible. Sounds a little suggestive to me.
>> >
>> >
>> > 1 Samuel 18
>> >
>> > 1 And it cometh to pass, when he finisheth to speak unto
> Saul,
>> >that the soul of Jonathan hath been bound to the soul of David, and
>> >Jonathan loveth him as his own soul.
>> >
>> > 2 And Saul taketh him on that day, and hath not permitted
> him
>> >to turn back to the house of his father.
>> >
>> > 3 And Jonathan maketh�also David�a covenant, because he
>> >loveth him as his own soul,
>> >
>> > 4 and Jonathan strippeth himself of the upper robe which is
>> >upon him, and giveth it to David, and his long robe, even unto his
>> >sword, and unto his bow, and unto his girdle.
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_____________________________________________________
List services made available by First Step Internet,
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
http://www.fsr.net
mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_____________________________________________________
List services made available by First Step Internet,
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
http://www.fsr.net
mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////
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