[Vision2020] Joan Opyr on 4/22/2006

[rvrcowboy]

Joan,

What difference does it make if I know you or not?  And, I looked through several translations of the Bible before answering you.  That's why I did not answer until now, even though you wrote this rubbish on the 22nd.  I also used several different reference materials to research this and spoke with the pastor of my church about it.  I believe I understand this passage fairly well.

Your need to justify your sexual preference is obviously overriding your good sense.  I don't read Greek, or Coptic, or Aramic.  Do you?  Your liberal ranting and rattling on with supposed academic prowess is irrelevent anyway.  This passage is clear in its meaning if taken in the context in which it is contained.

Do you actually believe that, despite all the cites in the Bible condeming homosexuality, this one slightly suggestive (at least to you) cite justifies your sin?  You need to get a life if you do.  I personally do not care what you believe, I only wish to set the record straight to others that you are dead wrong in you perverted translation.

Play all the word games you wish, it will not change the fact that you only wish there was a passage, any passage, anywhere in the Bible to justify your lifestyle.  Your desperate need is reaveled in your own words:       Sorry...........   "Now, tell me exactly how it is that you know what David and Jonathan got up to when the lights were out? Were you a fly on the wall?"  

I have no idea what you are talking about as for messing around with you name.  Is that another problem you have?  

I don't care about your ethnic background, that does not make you an expert on anything as far as I am concerned.  Of what relevance is it in this discussion anyway?  And you can group me with whomever you please as an excuse to diminish me in your own mind but I don't know these people you refer too.  

Get off the intellectual supueriority band wagon.  You are not impressing anyone with it anyway. 

Dick
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Joan Opyr 
  To: rvrcowboy 
  Cc: Vision2020 
  Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 3:47 PM
  Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Joan Opyr on 4/22/2006



  On Apr 26, 2006, at 1:17 PM, rvrcowboy wrote:


    Ed is forgetting, of course, that "the soul of Jonathan was bound to the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as his own soul. Then Jonathan made a covenant with David, because he loved him as his own soul." 1 Samuel 18. So much for Bathsheba. Uriah the Hittite bit the dust for nothing.
      
    Joan Opyr  4/22/2006
     

    What is Joan trying to make us believe here?  That David and Jonathan engaged in homosexual activities with each other?  That is crazy, but then again, who should be surprised at that from Joan?


  Do I know you Dick? Have we ever met? I don't think so. Unless, of course, we've sat down next to one another at Effie's and dined side by side on giant burgers without knowing it. Could be . . . 

  Now, tell me what you know about Biblical translation, or translation period? Do you read Coptic? Or Greek? How's your Aramaic? Which translation of the Bible do you use? Do you have a concordance? Do you use it? (Please bear in mind that a translation is not the same thing as a version.) Now, tell me exactly how it is that you know what David and Jonathan got up to when the lights were out? Were you a fly on the wall? That was what, 3,500 years ago? No wonder you're retired.

  What we do know about Jonathan's relationship with David is that, according to the "crazy" verse I cited, Jonathan loved David with a love surpassing, so much so that he bound his soul to David's. What do you call that kind of relationship? Just good friends?


     
    This chapter and verse is taken completely out of context and has nothing to do with homosexual activity what-so-ever but with the bond between David and Jonathan (Saul's son) as friends.  Joan has obviously never had a friend she trusted or loved with her soul.  Or, perhaps, not one that she has not had sex with anyway.
     

    To offer up this text as evidence that homosexuality is accepted in the Bible is ludicrous and bordering on blasphemy.  Talk about a stretch of the imagination.... WOW!
     

    Dick


  I take nothing out of context, Dick -- not this Biblical verse and not your crude assumptions about my friendships and my sex life. I am blessed in my family and my friendships, and I can name at least a dozen people in whom I trust completely. I've only "had sex" with one of them. As for evidence that homosexuality was accepted in the Bible, who said that's why I offered up this verse? I offered it to demonstrate that gay and lesbian relationships are a fact of life as old as time; that men have loved men and women have loved women for as long as there have been men and women. There are, I believe, 17 references to same-sex relations in the Bible. Most do condemn homosexuality. But the Bible also condemns the eating of shellfish and the wearing of blended fabrics, and it condones (among other things) murder, rape, and incest. Tell me what's uplifting and moral about the slaughter of the Amakelites or the story of Lot having sex with his daughters, and perhaps I'll listen to your ranting against same-sex marriage. 

  You think way too much about gay sex, Dick -- and so do Doug Farris, Dale Courtney, and our little swan, Ed "Cooper." I can assure you that we gay folk think very little about your sex lives. We prefer to hold onto our lunches.

  Joan Opyr/Auntie Establishment
  www.joanopyr.com

  PS: Your ideas of blasphemy, Dick, do not correspond with Jewish tradition. The devout Jew is encouraged to l'hakshot, meaning the asking of probing, difficult questions. We are to take nothing at face value. Our religion requires a dialog with God -- a dialog that you'll find in the midrash, thousands of years of recorded commentary on the Hebrew scriptures. We Jews are not only allowed but expected to ask questions of God, and it is not blasphemy to question the scriptures. Far from it. It's fine to be a sheep; it's not so hot to be a lemming.
  PPS: I am of English, Welsh, Scottish and Ukrainian Jewish descent. My name is pronounced with a hard "j." I'll thank you to stop playing around with it. Honestly, if my name were Dick, I'd think twice before I messed with anyone else's moniker -- even if it were I. P. Freely.




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