[Vision2020] Re: Hispanic comments...

keely emerinemix kjajmix1 at msn.com
Tue Apr 25 11:30:58 PDT 2006


Well, Dick, besides the fascinating question of why "Spanish" gang members 
would rack up calls to Mexico, your post offers a lot to think about.  
Little of that thinking, unfortunately, has to do with immigration; much of 
it has to do with trying to understand your belligerence.

I've never said that there's no immigration problem and, in fact, wrote 
earlier (check the archives; I always use my name in my posts) about 
"compassion fatigue" and enormous expenditures on the part of 
immigrant-affected social service agencies.  I do believe, however, that 
immigrants, legal and illegal, contribute more to the economy than they take 
out, and my anecdotal evidence is backed up by a number of studies.  I favor 
guest worker and amnesty programs, but I've never suggested that our borders 
should have the security equivalent of, say, a high school kegger.  And I 
take as dim a view as you do of people who break the law, although I'm 
apparently less willing to assume that undocumented border crossing makes 
good people become racist, violent, anti-assimilationist thugs.

Still, you seem unable to discuss this issue without relying on tired old 
assumptions, anecdotes that may or may not speak to the situation (do you 
know the immigration status of the gangmembers who mugged your grandson, or 
are you assuming illegality?), and a stunning lack of cognition about who it 
is, exactly, that you hate so much.  (Hint:  People from Spain are Spanish; 
people from Mexico are Mexican, and not everyone who speaks Spanish is an 
immigrant, a Mexican, a Spaniard, or even Latino).

Reality does, indeed, bite -- but it is defined by facts.  Even a liberal 
such as myself can agree on that.

Now, off to my luncheon with Cindy and Howard . . .

keely

From: "rvrcowboy" <rvrcowboy at clearwire.net>
To: "Vision2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Re: Hispanic comments...
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 07:55:16 -0700

keely,

I am not blind to my surroundings.  I can see the riots (disquised as
peaceful demonstrations) on the news.  With over 12 million people here
illegally and thousands more coming each month, I can't believe anyone would
not recognize this is a problem, even a liberal.

Just because you don't know these people personally does not mean they don't
speak for many others.  You don't know George Bush personally either but I
bet you have strong feelings there.

I have kids and grandkids living in the Seattle area and know the problems
in the schools there.  My grandson was mugged just last week in fact, by a
group of Spanish gang members who stole his cell phone and ran up over $100
in calls to Mexico before his parents could get it cancelled.  You can stick
your head in the sand and pretend this is not a problem if you wish but that
won't solve anything.

I also know people with children in school in the tri-cities area who are
having horrendous problems with Spanish gangs in the schools and on the
streets.

Reality bites....get used to it.

Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "keely emerinemix" <kjajmix1 at msn.com>
To: <rvrcowboy at clearwire.net>; <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 7:31 AM
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Re: Hispanic comments...


 > Not one of the immigrants I know -- and, cowboy, I've known hundreds --
 > would have any idea who these people are.
 >
 > I'm fairly well-informed on the issue, speak Spanish, lived in Arizona 
for
 > 22 years, ministered to Mexican immigrants for a dozen years in the 90s
 > until moving here in 2002, and my politics are generally liberal.  Still,
 > I've heard of none of the folks you quoted.  I doubt that I'd want to 
have
a
 > beer with any of them; they sound somewhat disagreeable.
 >
 > But they aren't the problem, they aren't the issue, and they aren't the
 > immigrants.  The manifesto they appear to lay out has nothing to do with
 > anyone I know and is unlikely to come true in any way, shape, or form --
the
 > complexion of the country may be changing in areas, but that's the 
history
 > of the United States writ with an accent you appear to simply fear.
Having
 > taught hundreds of English classes, all well-attended, I can attest to 
the
 > eagerness with which Mexican immigrants, even sub-literate ones, approach
 > learning English.
 >
 > Now, since you only regurgitated other sources, I'm curious -- can you
tell
 > us about YOUR experience with or views on immigrants, foreign culture,
 > cultural diversity in the US, learning a second language, politics in the
 > sunbelt, or anything else germane to the subject?
 >
 > keely
 >
 >
 > From: "rvrcowboy" <rvrcowboy at clearwire.net>
 > To: "Vision2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
 > Subject: [Vision2020] Re: Hispanic comments...
 > Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 07:12:02 -0700
 >
 > I think some of the people here on vision 2020 live in a world where 
their
 > reality is more of a fantasy.  I haven't read any of their comments on 
the
 > immigration issue yet but my guess is they will mostly construe it as
"hate
 > speech" or "bigotry" or some other politically correct euphemism against
 > Spanish people.  That isn't true, of course, but we'll see.
 >
 > I probably should not pre-judge the reactions but it is difficult not to.
 >
 > Have a great day.
 >
 > Dick
 >    From: Ed
 >    To: rvrcowboy
 >    Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 12:56 AM
 >    Subject: Re: Hispanic comments...
 >
 >
 >    Cowboy,
 >
 >    No surprise to me...I live in an area that, in the last 20 years, has
 > changed demographically from 15% to 70% Hispanics...the town is 5,000
people
 > and 250 of them (HS and Jr High students) were marching at an impromptu
 > rally a couple weeks back in protest of the proposed immigration
 > legislation. It was a joke. May 1st is the official "day without an
 > immigrant" rally.  They expect 1/4 of the city residents to be at the
 > rally...The areas largest employer (McCain Foods) has planned to shut 
down
 > for the occasion.  I say, lets go for a year without an immigrant, then
two,
 > three, etc... immigrant meaning illegal alien of course...Boy, I love the
 > politically correct euphemisms we use...
 >
 >    On the day, May 1, I will be wearing my "Viva La Deportation" shirt in
 > opposition to the march/rally...and hope to locate a confederate flag to
fly
 > from my truck...The previous rally saw numerous Mexican flags as well as
the
 > Caesar Chavez insignia (the bird thing, wings outstretched). The
immigration
 > debate is my pet peeve as you can tell...I wont even get started...
 >
 >    What do you make of some of those characters on Vision2020?
 >
 >    Ed
 >
 >
 >      ----- Original Message -----
 >      From: rvrcowboy
 >      To: Tom & Shelly Hansen ; ToeKneeTime at aol.com ; Susan Fagan ; Steve
 > Mizer ; Scott/Tracey Trotter ; Sandra Mitchell ; Sandra Lee ; Rick
 > Richardson ; Norman R West ; Neil Anderson ; Mary Lou Riddle ; Marc
Condrey
 > ; Larry & Terri Lodge/Bailey ; Keith/Cris Dawson ; Josh Sherwin ; Jim &
Jan
 > Rose ; Jesse Dinnell ; Jennifer Wolfe ; Jeff Peavey ; James LeRoy Kidder 
;
 > Jacqueline_Fagan at selinc.com ; Horton, Vicki ; Greg Rodgers ; Fred Mensik 
;
 > Ed ; Dena? ; Deanne Dawson ; dcarlin ; Darcy I. Lodge ; Dale P Sherwin ;
D.
 > Porter ; Cindi Mader ; Christy Bing ; Cher at work ; Chad ; Burl McCann ;
 > Brian Boggan ; BobbieJo ; Becky Olinger ; Barb kole ; Art Seamans ; Amber
;
 > Alberta Ruark
 >      Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 11:35 PM
 >      Subject: Fw: Hispanic comments...
 >
 >
 >
 >      ----- Original Message -----
 >      From: Dick Flerchinger
 >      To: Dick Flerchinger
 >      Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 2:02 PM
 >      Subject: Hispanic comments...
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >            HISPANIC LEADERS SPEAK OUT!
 >
 >            Augustin Cebada, Brown Berets; "Go back to Boston! Go back to
 >            Plymouth  Rock, Pilgrims! Get out! We are the future. You are
old
 > and tired.
 >            Go on. We  have beaten you. Leave like beaten rats. You old
white
 > people. It
 >            is your duty to die . . . Through love of having children, we
are
 > going
 >             to take  over.
 >
 >            Richard Alatorre, Los Angeles City Council. "They're afraid
we're
 >   going
 >            to  take over the governmental institutions and other
 > institutions.
 >            They're  right. We will take them over . . We are here to
stay."
 >
 >            Excelsior, the national newspaper of Mexico, "The American
 > Southwest
 >            seems  to be slowly returning to the jurisdiction of Mexico
 > without firing a
 >            single  shot."
 >
 >
 >              Professor Jose Angel Gutierrez, University of Texas; "We 
have
 > an
 >            aging white  America. They are not making babies. They are
dying.
 >
 >            The explosion is in  our population . . . I love it. They are
 > shitting in
 >
 >             their pants with fear.   I love it."
 >
 >            Art Torres, Chairman of the California Democratic Party,
 > "Remember
 >            187--proposition to deny taxpayer funds for services to
 >            non-citizens--was the last  gasp of white America in
California."
 >
 >            Gloria Molina, Los Angeles County Supervisor, "We are
 > politicizing
 >            every single one of these new citizens that are becoming
citizens
 > of
 >
 >            this country .
 >            . I gotta tell you that a lot of people are saying, "I'm going
to
 > go
 >            out  there and vote because I want to pay them back."
 >
 >            Mario Obledo, California Coalition of Hispanic Organizations
and
 >            California  State Secretary of Health, Education and Welfare
 > under
 >
 >            Governor Jerry  Brown, also awarded the Presidential Medal of
 >
 >            Freedom by President Bill  Clinton.
 >
 >
 >            "California is going to be a Hispanic state. Anyone who 
doesn't
 > like
 >            it should  leave."
 >
 >            Jose Pescador Osuna, Mexican Consul General , "We are
practicing
 > 'La
 >            Reconquista' in California."
 >
 >            Professor Fernando Guerra, Loyola Marymount University; "We
need
 > to
 >            avoid a  white backlash by using codes understood by Latinos .
.
 > . "
 >
 >            Are these just the words of a few extremists? Consider that we
 > could
 >            fill  up many pages with such quotes. Also, consider that 
these
 > are
 >            mainstream  Mexican leaders.
 >
 >            THE U.S. VS MEXICO:
 >            On February 15, 1998, the U.S. and Mexican soccer teams met at
 > the
 >            Los Angeles Coliseum. The crowd was overwhelmingly pro-Mexican
 > even
 >            though most lived  in this country. They booed during the
 > National Anthem
 >
 >            and U.S. flags  were  held upside down. As the match
progressed,
 >
 >            supporters of the U.S. team   were  insulted, pelted with
 > projectiles, punched
 >
 >            and spat upon. Beer and  trash  were thrown at the U.S. 
players
 > before and
 >
 >             after the match. The coach of the  U.S. team, Steve Sampson
 > said,
 >
 >            "This was the most painful experience I have  ever had in this
 > profession."
 >
 >            Did you know that immigrants from Mexico and other 
non-European
 >            countries  can come to this country and get preferences in
jobs,
 >
 >            education, and  government  contracts? It's called affirmative
 > action or racial
 >
 >            privilege. The  Emperor of Japan or the President of Mexico
could
 > migrate
 >
 >            here and  immediately be  eligible for special rights
unavailable
 > for
 >
 >            Americans of European  descent.
 >
 >            Recently, a vote was taken in the U.S. Congress to end this
 > practice.
 >            It was  defeated. Every single Democratic senator except 
Ernest
 > Hollings
 >            voted to  maintain special privileges for Hispanic, Asian and
 > African
 >            immigrants. They  were joined by thirteen Republicans.
 >
 >            Bill Clinton and Al Gore have  repeatedly stated they believe
 > that massive
 >
 >            immigration from countries like  Mexico  is good. They have
also
 > backed
 >
 >            special privileges for these  immigrants.
 >
 >            Corporate America has signed on to the idea that minorities 
and
 >            third  world  immigrants should get special, privileged 
status.
 >
 >            Some examples are Exxon,  Texaco, Merrill Lynch, Boeing, Paine
 > Weber,
 >
 >            Starbucks and many more.
 >
 >            DID YOU KNOW?:
 >            Did you know that Mexico regularly intercedes on the side of
the
 >            defense in  criminal cases involving Mexican nationals? Did 
you
 > know
 >
 >            that Mexico  has NEVER extradited a Mexican national accused 
of
 >
 >            murder in the U.S. in spite of  agreements to do so?
 >
 >
 >
 >            According to the L.A. Times, Orange County, California  is 
home
 > to 275
 >
 >            gangs with 17,000 members; 98% of which are Mexican  and 
Asian.
 >
 >
 >            How's your county doing?
 >
 >            According to a New York Times article dated May 19, 1994, 20
 > years
 >            after the  great influx of legal immigrants from Southeast
Asia,
 > 30%
 >
 >            are still  on  welfare compared to 8% of households 
nationwide.
 >
 >             A Wall Street Journal  editorial dated December 5, 1994 
quotes
 > law
 >
 >            enforcement officials as stating that Asian mobsters are the
 >
 >            "greatest criminal challenge the  country faces." Not bad for 
a
 > group
 >
 >             that is still under 5% of the  population.
 >
 >            Is education important to you? Here are the words of a teacher
 > who
 >            spent  over 20 years in the Los Angeles School system.
 >
 >            "Imagine teachers  in classes containing 30-40 students of
widely
 >
 >            varying attention spans  and motivation, many of whom aren't
 > fluent
 >
 >            in English. Educators seek learning materials likely to reach
the
 >
 >            majority of students and  that means fewer words and math
 > problems
 >
 >            and more pictures and  multicultural  references."
 >
 >            Immigrants that came through Ellis Island wanted to learn
 > English.
 >            They wanted to breath free. They wanted to become Americans.
Now
 > too
 >            many immigrants come here with  demands. They demand to be
taught
 >
 >            in their own language. They demand special
 > privileges--affirmative action.
 >
 >            They demand ethnic studies that  glorify their  culture.
 >
 >            HOW CAN YOU HELP?:
 >            Send this to at least two other people, Help get the word out.
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 > << IMSTP.gif >>
 >
 >
 > _____________________________________________________
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