[Vision2020] Re: Hispanic comments...
rvrcowboy
rvrcowboy at clearwire.net
Tue Apr 25 14:16:18 PDT 2006
First off, let me clairify that I did not write this. I do however, agree
with the fact that the problem is huge and something drastic needs to be
done about it. When I spoke of Spanish gang members, I was refering to
Spanish speaking people, not necessarily people from Spain. I assumed that
should be clear to anyone but guess not.
No, I do not know these particular people, or their status. I do know the
problem is growing and ignoring it will not help. Reason, logic and common
sense tell me action is required.
Let's face the fact that the problem is getting bigger, not smaller, and
that open borders are not working. I just wanted to get the reaction of the
group, as a whole, when I submitted this post. I was pretty sure it would
be negative and there would be a lot of name calling because most would not
agree. Therefore, I must be "racist" or a "bigot" or whatever. I was just
curious....
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "keely emerinemix" <kjajmix1 at msn.com>
To: <rvrcowboy at clearwire.net>; <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 11:30 AM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Re: Hispanic comments...
> Well, Dick, besides the fascinating question of why "Spanish" gang members
> would rack up calls to Mexico, your post offers a lot to think about.
> Little of that thinking, unfortunately, has to do with immigration; much
of
> it has to do with trying to understand your belligerence.
>
> I've never said that there's no immigration problem and, in fact, wrote
> earlier (check the archives; I always use my name in my posts) about
> "compassion fatigue" and enormous expenditures on the part of
> immigrant-affected social service agencies. I do believe, however, that
> immigrants, legal and illegal, contribute more to the economy than they
take
> out, and my anecdotal evidence is backed up by a number of studies. I
favor
> guest worker and amnesty programs, but I've never suggested that our
borders
> should have the security equivalent of, say, a high school kegger. And I
> take as dim a view as you do of people who break the law, although I'm
> apparently less willing to assume that undocumented border crossing makes
> good people become racist, violent, anti-assimilationist thugs.
>
> Still, you seem unable to discuss this issue without relying on tired old
> assumptions, anecdotes that may or may not speak to the situation (do you
> know the immigration status of the gangmembers who mugged your grandson,
or
> are you assuming illegality?), and a stunning lack of cognition about who
it
> is, exactly, that you hate so much. (Hint: People from Spain are
Spanish;
> people from Mexico are Mexican, and not everyone who speaks Spanish is an
> immigrant, a Mexican, a Spaniard, or even Latino).
>
> Reality does, indeed, bite -- but it is defined by facts. Even a liberal
> such as myself can agree on that.
>
> Now, off to my luncheon with Cindy and Howard . . .
>
> keely
>
> From: "rvrcowboy" <rvrcowboy at clearwire.net>
> To: "Vision2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Re: Hispanic comments...
> Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 07:55:16 -0700
>
> keely,
>
> I am not blind to my surroundings. I can see the riots (disquised as
> peaceful demonstrations) on the news. With over 12 million people here
> illegally and thousands more coming each month, I can't believe anyone
would
> not recognize this is a problem, even a liberal.
>
> Just because you don't know these people personally does not mean they
don't
> speak for many others. You don't know George Bush personally either but I
> bet you have strong feelings there.
>
> I have kids and grandkids living in the Seattle area and know the problems
> in the schools there. My grandson was mugged just last week in fact, by a
> group of Spanish gang members who stole his cell phone and ran up over
$100
> in calls to Mexico before his parents could get it cancelled. You can
stick
> your head in the sand and pretend this is not a problem if you wish but th
at
> won't solve anything.
>
> I also know people with children in school in the tri-cities area who are
> having horrendous problems with Spanish gangs in the schools and on the
> streets.
>
> Reality bites....get used to it.
>
> Dick
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "keely emerinemix" <kjajmix1 at msn.com>
> To: <rvrcowboy at clearwire.net>; <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 7:31 AM
> Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Re: Hispanic comments...
>
>
> > Not one of the immigrants I know -- and, cowboy, I've known hundreds --
> > would have any idea who these people are.
> >
> > I'm fairly well-informed on the issue, speak Spanish, lived in Arizona
> for
> > 22 years, ministered to Mexican immigrants for a dozen years in the 90s
> > until moving here in 2002, and my politics are generally liberal.
Still,
> > I've heard of none of the folks you quoted. I doubt that I'd want to
> have
> a
> > beer with any of them; they sound somewhat disagreeable.
> >
> > But they aren't the problem, they aren't the issue, and they aren't the
> > immigrants. The manifesto they appear to lay out has nothing to do
with
> > anyone I know and is unlikely to come true in any way, shape, or
form --
> the
> > complexion of the country may be changing in areas, but that's the
> history
> > of the United States writ with an accent you appear to simply fear.
> Having
> > taught hundreds of English classes, all well-attended, I can attest to
> the
> > eagerness with which Mexican immigrants, even sub-literate ones,
approach
> > learning English.
> >
> > Now, since you only regurgitated other sources, I'm curious -- can you
> tell
> > us about YOUR experience with or views on immigrants, foreign culture,
> > cultural diversity in the US, learning a second language, politics in
the
> > sunbelt, or anything else germane to the subject?
> >
> > keely
> >
> >
> > From: "rvrcowboy" <rvrcowboy at clearwire.net>
> > To: "Vision2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> > Subject: [Vision2020] Re: Hispanic comments...
> > Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 07:12:02 -0700
> >
> > I think some of the people here on vision 2020 live in a world where
> their
> > reality is more of a fantasy. I haven't read any of their comments on
> the
> > immigration issue yet but my guess is they will mostly construe it as
> "hate
> > speech" or "bigotry" or some other politically correct euphemism
against
> > Spanish people. That isn't true, of course, but we'll see.
> >
> > I probably should not pre-judge the reactions but it is difficult not
to.
> >
> > Have a great day.
> >
> > Dick
> > From: Ed
> > To: rvrcowboy
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 12:56 AM
> > Subject: Re: Hispanic comments...
> >
> >
> > Cowboy,
> >
> > No surprise to me...I live in an area that, in the last 20 years,
has
> > changed demographically from 15% to 70% Hispanics...the town is 5,000
> people
> > and 250 of them (HS and Jr High students) were marching at an impromptu
> > rally a couple weeks back in protest of the proposed immigration
> > legislation. It was a joke. May 1st is the official "day without an
> > immigrant" rally. They expect 1/4 of the city residents to be at the
> > rally...The areas largest employer (McCain Foods) has planned to shut
> down
> > for the occasion. I say, lets go for a year without an immigrant, then
> two,
> > three, etc... immigrant meaning illegal alien of course...Boy, I love
the
> > politically correct euphemisms we use...
> >
> > On the day, May 1, I will be wearing my "Viva La Deportation" shirt
in
> > opposition to the march/rally...and hope to locate a confederate flag
to
> fly
> > from my truck...The previous rally saw numerous Mexican flags as well
as
> the
> > Caesar Chavez insignia (the bird thing, wings outstretched). The
> immigration
> > debate is my pet peeve as you can tell...I wont even get started...
> >
> > What do you make of some of those characters on Vision2020?
> >
> > Ed
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: rvrcowboy
> > To: Tom & Shelly Hansen ; ToeKneeTime at aol.com ; Susan Fagan ;
Steve
> > Mizer ; Scott/Tracey Trotter ; Sandra Mitchell ; Sandra Lee ; Rick
> > Richardson ; Norman R West ; Neil Anderson ; Mary Lou Riddle ; Marc
> Condrey
> > ; Larry & Terri Lodge/Bailey ; Keith/Cris Dawson ; Josh Sherwin ; Jim &
> Jan
> > Rose ; Jesse Dinnell ; Jennifer Wolfe ; Jeff Peavey ; James LeRoy
Kidder
> ;
> > Jacqueline_Fagan at selinc.com ; Horton, Vicki ; Greg Rodgers ; Fred
Mensik
> ;
> > Ed ; Dena? ; Deanne Dawson ; dcarlin ; Darcy I. Lodge ; Dale P Sherwin
;
> D.
> > Porter ; Cindi Mader ; Christy Bing ; Cher at work ; Chad ; Burl McCann
;
> > Brian Boggan ; BobbieJo ; Becky Olinger ; Barb kole ; Art Seamans ;
Amber
> ;
> > Alberta Ruark
> > Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 11:35 PM
> > Subject: Fw: Hispanic comments...
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Dick Flerchinger
> > To: Dick Flerchinger
> > Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 2:02 PM
> > Subject: Hispanic comments...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > HISPANIC LEADERS SPEAK OUT!
> >
> > Augustin Cebada, Brown Berets; "Go back to Boston! Go back
to
> > Plymouth Rock, Pilgrims! Get out! We are the future. You
are
> old
> > and tired.
> > Go on. We have beaten you. Leave like beaten rats. You old
> white
> > people. It
> > is your duty to die . . . Through love of having children,
we
> are
> > going
> > to take over.
> >
> > Richard Alatorre, Los Angeles City Council. "They're afraid
> we're
> > going
> > to take over the governmental institutions and other
> > institutions.
> > They're right. We will take them over . . We are here to
> stay."
> >
> > Excelsior, the national newspaper of Mexico, "The American
> > Southwest
> > seems to be slowly returning to the jurisdiction of Mexico
> > without firing a
> > single shot."
> >
> >
> > Professor Jose Angel Gutierrez, University of Texas; "We
> have
> > an
> > aging white America. They are not making babies. They are
> dying.
> >
> > The explosion is in our population . . . I love it. They
are
> > shitting in
> >
> > their pants with fear. I love it."
> >
> > Art Torres, Chairman of the California Democratic Party,
> > "Remember
> > 187--proposition to deny taxpayer funds for services to
> > non-citizens--was the last gasp of white America in
> California."
> >
> > Gloria Molina, Los Angeles County Supervisor, "We are
> > politicizing
> > every single one of these new citizens that are becoming
> citizens
> > of
> >
> > this country .
> > . I gotta tell you that a lot of people are saying, "I'm
going
> to
> > go
> > out there and vote because I want to pay them back."
> >
> > Mario Obledo, California Coalition of Hispanic Organizations
> and
> > California State Secretary of Health, Education and Welfare
> > under
> >
> > Governor Jerry Brown, also awarded the Presidential Medal
of
> >
> > Freedom by President Bill Clinton.
> >
> >
> > "California is going to be a Hispanic state. Anyone who
> doesn't
> > like
> > it should leave."
> >
> > Jose Pescador Osuna, Mexican Consul General , "We are
> practicing
> > 'La
> > Reconquista' in California."
> >
> > Professor Fernando Guerra, Loyola Marymount University; "We
> need
> > to
> > avoid a white backlash by using codes understood by Latinos
.
> .
> > . "
> >
> > Are these just the words of a few extremists? Consider that
we
> > could
> > fill up many pages with such quotes. Also, consider that
> these
> > are
> > mainstream Mexican leaders.
> >
> > THE U.S. VS MEXICO:
> > On February 15, 1998, the U.S. and Mexican soccer teams met
at
> > the
> > Los Angeles Coliseum. The crowd was overwhelmingly
pro-Mexican
> > even
> > though most lived in this country. They booed during the
> > National Anthem
> >
> > and U.S. flags were held upside down. As the match
> progressed,
> >
> > supporters of the U.S. team were insulted, pelted with
> > projectiles, punched
> >
> > and spat upon. Beer and trash were thrown at the U.S.
> players
> > before and
> >
> > after the match. The coach of the U.S. team, Steve Sampson
> > said,
> >
> > "This was the most painful experience I have ever had in
this
> > profession."
> >
> > Did you know that immigrants from Mexico and other
> non-European
> > countries can come to this country and get preferences in
> jobs,
> >
> > education, and government contracts? It's called
affirmative
> > action or racial
> >
> > privilege. The Emperor of Japan or the President of Mexico
> could
> > migrate
> >
> > here and immediately be eligible for special rights
> unavailable
> > for
> >
> > Americans of European descent.
> >
> > Recently, a vote was taken in the U.S. Congress to end this
> > practice.
> > It was defeated. Every single Democratic senator except
> Ernest
> > Hollings
> > voted to maintain special privileges for Hispanic, Asian
and
> > African
> > immigrants. They were joined by thirteen Republicans.
> >
> > Bill Clinton and Al Gore have repeatedly stated they
believe
> > that massive
> >
> > immigration from countries like Mexico is good. They have
> also
> > backed
> >
> > special privileges for these immigrants.
> >
> > Corporate America has signed on to the idea that minorities
> and
> > third world immigrants should get special, privileged
> status.
> >
> > Some examples are Exxon, Texaco, Merrill Lynch, Boeing,
Paine
> > Weber,
> >
> > Starbucks and many more.
> >
> > DID YOU KNOW?:
> > Did you know that Mexico regularly intercedes on the side of
> the
> > defense in criminal cases involving Mexican nationals? Did
> you
> > know
> >
> > that Mexico has NEVER extradited a Mexican national accused
> of
> >
> > murder in the U.S. in spite of agreements to do so?
> >
> >
> >
> > According to the L.A. Times, Orange County, California is
> home
> > to 275
> >
> > gangs with 17,000 members; 98% of which are Mexican and
> Asian.
> >
> >
> > How's your county doing?
> >
> > According to a New York Times article dated May 19, 1994, 20
> > years
> > after the great influx of legal immigrants from Southeast
> Asia,
> > 30%
> >
> > are still on welfare compared to 8% of households
> nationwide.
> >
> > A Wall Street Journal editorial dated December 5, 1994
> quotes
> > law
> >
> > enforcement officials as stating that Asian mobsters are the
> >
> > "greatest criminal challenge the country faces." Not bad
for
> a
> > group
> >
> > that is still under 5% of the population.
> >
> > Is education important to you? Here are the words of a
teacher
> > who
> > spent over 20 years in the Los Angeles School system.
> >
> > "Imagine teachers in classes containing 30-40 students of
> widely
> >
> > varying attention spans and motivation, many of whom aren't
> > fluent
> >
> > in English. Educators seek learning materials likely to
reach
> the
> >
> > majority of students and that means fewer words and math
> > problems
> >
> > and more pictures and multicultural references."
> >
> > Immigrants that came through Ellis Island wanted to learn
> > English.
> > They wanted to breath free. They wanted to become Americans.
> Now
> > too
> > many immigrants come here with demands. They demand to be
> taught
> >
> > in their own language. They demand special
> > privileges--affirmative action.
> >
> > They demand ethnic studies that glorify their culture.
> >
> > HOW CAN YOU HELP?:
> > Send this to at least two other people, Help get the word
out.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > << IMSTP.gif >>
> >
> >
> > _____________________________________________________
> > List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > http://www.fsr.net
> > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> > ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
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> >
>
> _____________________________________________________
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> http://www.fsr.net
> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
>
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