[Vision2020] Immigration, Intolerance, and Issues

Thu Apr 13 12:25:19 PDT 2006

Mr. Curley,

Yes, it is totally possible that someone can be  opposed to immigration and the individual living choices of a group of  people without being a bigot.

 However, when those persons  ONLY file complainants against Black people, has a history of only  filing complaints against Black people, says publicly they hate Black  people,  makes derogatory comments against Black people almost  everyday, and they have said publicly they are trying to drive Black  people from town, then chances are slim to none that they are not  bigots.

  Such is the case with this group of people against New St. Andrews. 

  Mr. Curly, what further reasonable evidence do you want demonstrated  that they not doing this for concern for living conditions of our  communities members but because they are trying to bring injury to a  group of people they disagree with on theological reasons? 

  _DJA

Michael Curley <curley at turbonet.com> wrote:  Matt:
It is possible that one does not have to be racist to oppose illegal 
immigration.  It is likewise possible that one does not have to be a 
religious intolerista to oppose living arrangements that violate the 
law. or colleges that are (were) illegally located.  or alternative 
high schools that violated the law.  
It is possible to be "white" (whatever that means), not a racist, and 
be opposed to Barry Bonds breaking Ruth's home run records.  It is 
possible to be black/a person of color, not a racist, and be opposed 
to Mark McGwire breaking Aaron's home run record.
And, it is also possible to be both racist (or an intolerista) and 
oppose each of those events--and, interestingly enough, for (a) 
racist reasons;  (b) totally non-racist reasons; or (c) both.
The issue and the motivation may or may not be related.  Focusing on 
issues, not epithets, does a lot more to advance understanding.  On 
occasion it even leads to consensus or solutions.
I take you at your word Matt.  
As many others have suggested, I find the discussion of issues much 
more enlightening than the creativity of the epithets that get thrown 
around on this list.
Mike

From:            "Matt Decker" 
To:              fotopro63 at hotmail.com, vision2020 at Moscow.com
Date sent:       Wed, 12 Apr 2006 22:41:51 -0700
Copies to:       
Subject:         [Spam] RE: [Vision2020] Imigration

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Kai and all,

I choose to ask if some think I am racist to prove a point. I know I
am not, however if some are going to throw the R card down so quick,
then so will I. I know who I am, where I came from, and my life
experiences. I don't like it when liberals and others call my view of
illegals immigration racist. Let the facts be facts, Illegals
immigrants are not citizens of the US. I guess for at least now.

Good night
matt

>From: "Kai Eiselein" 
>To: vision2020 at Moscow.com
>Subject: [Vision2020] Imigration
>Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 05:00:56 +0000
>
>Matt,
>
>If you'll check back through some earlier posts, you'll find that
>Keeley and I had a discussion about illegal immigration. To tell the
>truth, I fully expected to be pilloried by other V2020ers, but
>wasn't. That is a good thing,  since my ex-wife's maiden name is
>Rodriguez. After my daughter was born, it dawned on me that being
>racist would entail me hating my child because of her Hispanic/Native
>American heritage. And that, my friend, will NOT happen. As long as
>your stand is taken in a reasoned manner based on fact/personal
>experience, I doubt that most would drop the "R" bomb. Just as an
>aside to the terrorism posts, would shooting at Border Patrol agents,
>from the Mexican side of the border while they are confiscating 164
>pounds of "Mota" along the fence be construed as terrorism? It
>happened near Nogales, AZ last week. The border has always been
>rough, with an element of lawlessness permeating it, but it seems to
>becoming more and more a war zone.
>
>
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