[Vision2020] Atwood Letter Rewritten

g. crabtree jampot at adelphia.net
Mon Apr 3 10:39:03 PDT 2006


Ms. Mix, When might we expect to see the results of "some of your closest 
friends" photo reconnaissance mission? And perhaps an explanation for 
trespassing on private property and generally being a churlish nuisance?

gc
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "keely emerinemix" <kjajmix1 at msn.com>
To: <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>; <jampot at adelphia.net>; 
<sslund at adelphia.net>; <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Cc: <DonaldH675 at aol.com>
Sent: Monday, April 03, 2006 8:02 AM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Atwood Letter Rewritten


> As a conservative Christian -- the term refers to theology, not 
> politics -- 
> I have to laugh at the thought that the people you mentioned are bigots 
> and hurl their bigotry toward conservative Christians.
>
> Since I count them among my closest friends, I have to wonder how I could 
> be so dumb.  But then I asked them, and they assured me that it was 
> because I'm ... a conservative Christian.  Whew.
>
> keely
>
>
> From: Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>
> To: "g. crabtree" <jampot at adelphia.net>, Saundra Lund 
> <sslund at adelphia.net>, vision2020 at moscow.com
> CC: DonaldH675 at aol.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Atwood Letter Rewritten
> Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 06:44:51 -0700 (PDT)
>
> Gary,
>
>  I don't have to speculate it is personal. Just ask  them. Joan, Rose, and 
> her entire household & friends will just tell  you flat out they are 
> bigoted against conservative Christians and have  a personal ax to grind 
> with Wilson.
>
>   Please keep up your insightful posts, it saves me from writing so much.
>
>   _DJA
>
> "g. crabtree" <jampot at adelphia.net> wrote:              Donovan,  Since I 
> don't have the ability to peer into the hearts and minds of the  principal 
> players in this overblown imbroglio I am reluctant to ascribe  motive. 
> However on the face of it there is all the appearance of  something other 
> than wanting to be able to park in the two southernmost  rows of the 
> Jackson St. parking lot at play here. If I had to  guess I suspect it has 
> to do with personal animosities and not  some grand liberal, anti 
> Christian agenda as some on this list may have  speculated on our behalf.
>
>   G. Crabtree
>       ----- Original Message -----
>     From:     Donovan Arnold
>     To: g. crabtree ; Saundra Lund ;     vision2020 at moscow.com
>     Cc: DonaldH675 at aol.com
>     Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2006 10:11     PM
>     Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Atwood Letter     Rewritten
>
>
>
> "To not do so, once again,  makes this look like a personnel
> crusade for you and your commandos."-- Gary Crabtree
>
> But Gary, this is a personal crusade for her and her commandos.
> What did you think it was about?
>
> _DJA
>
>
>
> "g.     crabtree" <jampot at adelphia.net> wrote:    Ms.       Lund,
>
> What ever in the world are you talking about?
>
> "Simply       put, when one church is
> > rightly denied exemption because it's       competing with commercial
> businesses
> > and another is given a pass,       that's discriminatory."
>
> What "churches" are you referring to? My       point with regard to tax 
> exemption
> was that NSA like ALL schools is tax       exempt no matter where they are
> located. This being the case, NSA's tax       status was irrelevant to the 
> BOA. If
> you believe that NSA should NOT be       tax exempt, I would be able to 
> respect
> your argument IF you were to       apply the revocation to all educational
> institutions. (or even only       religiously affiliated ones) When you 
> only
> complain about NSA in this       manner it makes it hard for me to believe 
> that
> this isn't a personal       matter and that all the posturing with regard 
> to
> taxes, commercial       frontage, and parking aren't just means to an end.
>
> With regard to Mr.       Reed selling his restaurant to the U of I, my 
> only
> objection would be       that the university was wasting tax dollars on an
> unprofitable       operation. If they want to lease the space from the 
> brothers
> Bode, I       couldn't care less. I seriously doubt the U of I would be 
> interested
> in       such a proposition.
>
> As to your parking space breakdown, it still       appears to me that you 
> are
> massaging the numbers to make your case. With       NSA at current 
> enrollment and
> the commercial space unoccupied, parking       is fairly commensurate with 
> other
> spaces downtown and far better then       when GTE was the occupant. I am 
> certain
> that as GTE started to       underutilize the building and finally left
> altogether, surrounding       properties/businesses came to see those 
> newly
> available slots as theirs.       Sadly this is not the case. No space in 
> that lot
> "belongs" to any       business. The fact that plenty of U of I students 
> park
> there and walk to       school proves this contention. As I said before, 
> if you
> are serious       about the parking problem explore the option of meters, 
> permits
> or       LID's. To not do so, once again, makes this look like a personnel
> crusade for you and your commandos.
>
> G. Crabtree
>
> P.S.       Speaking of the commandos, what kind of mission do you suppose 
> "J.
> Ford"       was on today? Was it part of the even handed civic mindedness 
> that
> typifies this whole debate?
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Saundra Lund"
> To: "'g. crabtree'"       ;
> Cc: ; "'Ted Moffett'"
> Sent: Sunday,       April 02, 2006 3:30 PM
> Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Atwood Letter       Rewritten
>
>
> > Hi Again Mr. Crabtree,
> >
> > You       wrote:
> > "Ms. Lund, I'm not sure what the asterisks on either side of       *you*
> implies
> > but I would have been happy to have made your       acquaintance. 
> > Perhaps
> next
> > time. Look for a middle aged, blue collar       Neanderthal who sits
> close to
> > the
> > door in case a hasty exit       is required. (crowds make me a bit 
> > edgy)"
> >
> > Ah-HA!!! So, you       took one of my favorite seats! Save me one by the
> door
> > next time, if       possible, because I'm not a huge fan of crowds,
> either.
> >
> > The       asterisks meant nothing more than I would have appreciated
> meeting       you
> > to put a face with the name :-)
> >
> > And, I honestly       mean no offense, but have you looked around? I
> think a
> > pretty fair       number of men would fit the description you provided,
> at least
> > to my       eyes ;-) Perhaps name tags would be a good idea ;-)
> >
> > You       wrote:
> > "From the top. Yes you are right. I was making broad
> generalizations in my
> > communication with Ms.Woolf . . .       "
> >
> > Good, I'm glad we got that cleared up. FWIW, I'm glad       you're
> willing to
> > accept my notes and the Trib article as accurate       reflections of
> what was
> > actually said at the       meeting.
> >
> > You also wrote:
> > "If you would like to make       a less discriminatory argument for
> revoking tax
> > exemptions for all       schools and churches have at it."
> >
> > Sorry, I don't think       there's anything at all discriminatory about
> > expecting
> > our       laws to be followed -- quite the contrary: it's discriminatory
> for
> >       our
> > laws not to be fairly and equitably applied. Simply put, when       one
> church
> > is
> > rightly denied exemption because it's       competing with commercial
> businesses
> > and another is given a pass,       that's discriminatory.
> >
> > You also wrote:
> > "Zoning       allows for educational institutions downtown with a CUP."
> >
> >       Yes, that's what's allowed *now*, but that's *not* what was 
> > allowed
>       in
> > February, 2003 when NSA opened for classes on Main       Street.
> >
> > You also wrote:
> > "I'll worry about BSU       hogging up Main St. with a satellite campus
> when the
> > danger is a       trifle more immanent. "
> >
> > What about the UI? I'll admit I       found the whole "we were never
> concerned
> > about the UI expanding       downtown" nonsense to be amusing . . .
> remember
> > City
> > staff       and some (former) Council members blathering on & on about
> how       they
> > had searched & searched unsuccessfully for proof that had       ever 
> > been
> an
> > issue
> > or concern, all the while ignoring the       testimony of those with
> first-hand
> > knowledge? What a pathetic joke!       It took lil' ol' me no more than
> 5-10
> > minutes of searching the       Lewiston Tribune archives to find the
> articles,
> > something the City       in its "exhaustive" searches failed to find. 
> > Why
> do
> > you
> >       suppose that is??? Could it possibly be the City was practicing 
> > CYA
> for
> > its
> > role in the whole NSA mess?
> >
> > So, if Mr.       Reed sells Basillio's to the UI, you'd have no 
> > objection
> to it
> > being       removed from the tax rolls and classes being held there,
>  right?
> >
> > You also wrote:
> > "I must admit I was shocked       to hear Ms. Husky's seemingly
> contradictory
> > turn
> > about of       opinion with regard to the school and it's students."
> >
> > Huh? I       think you must be confused. I don't want to speak for Rose,
> but I
> >       think we have always been consistent in our position that while
> neither       of
> > us would ever send our kids to NSA, we absolutely don't have a
> problem
> > with
> > NSA in Moscow as long as it operates within       the law and in an
> appropriate
> > location, which we don't believe is in       the CBD.
> >
> > You also wrote:
> > "As to the parking, forgive       me if I do this from memory. I don't
> have the
> > stats or the meeting       minutes available. My understanding is that
> with the
> > collage at its       current enrollment, it is using parking at the same
> level
> >       as
> > any other commercial use. "
> >
> > Mr. Crabtree, in my       last response to you I gave you the facts that
> show
> > your
> >       understanding is flatly incorrect. The facts I gave you (which I'm
> >       including again) came from my notes:
> > "No, sorry, wrong again. City       staff made the point that NSA 
> > *alone*
> > accounts for about 7% of all       auto trips on Main Street: the 
> > average
> daily
> > trip count is 4806 with       NSA accounting for 332.2 of those trips.
> One
> > educational institution       *alone* accounts for 7%, which is clearly
> out of
> > proportion and a       higher use than other Main St. establishments.
> Also,
> > based
> >       on NSA's current enrollment and staffing, it requires 43 parking
> stalls
> > with
> > an additional 11 required for the retail space. At       NSA's maximum
> > allowable
> > enrollment and staffing, they will       require 65 parking stalls (plus
> 11 for
> > the retail space). City staff       stated that NSA requires 12-34 more
> parking
> > stalls that other       commercial uses of similar size."
> >
> > That is the information       presented by City staff, and should you
> think
> > perhaps my notes are       wrong, the following comes from the Daily
> News'
> > article:
> > "A       Community Development Department staff report shared at the
> meeting
> >       stated NSA creates a need for 43-65 parking stalls, which is 12-34
>      more
> > stalls than other commercial uses of the same size in downtown.       "
> >
> > My notes are more detailed than what appeared in the Daily       News,
> but the
> > facts are the same and contrary to your understanding.       Even at its
> > current
> > enrollment, NSA uses *more* parking       that other commercial uses of
> the same
> > size.
> >
> > Now, if       you want to prove that City staff's numbers are wrong,
> knock
> >       yourself out -- I'd be interested. Otherwise, your understanding
> just
> > isn't
> > supported by the available facts.
> >
> >       Finally, you also wrote:
> > "As I have said before, this really isn't       about parking (much less
> the
> > slippery slope of educational       orgs.)"
> >
> > I would say the real issue is about the fair and       equal application
> of the
> > law. I agree with Ted Moffett who wrote,       "Selective enforcement of
> the
> > law
> > is a cornerstone of       bigotry and intolerance, with favors and a
> "wink"
> > handed
> >       out to those who conform to the values and ideology of those in
> power."
> > For
> > whatever reason, the zoning laws where changed to       prevent
> non-commercial
> > schools & educational institutions from       locating in the CBD. Then,
> when
> > NSA
> > steamrolls over the       rules the rest of us have followed -- and mind
> you,
> > they
> >       made NO ATTEMPT to change the law first -- they get the wink & a
> nod . .       .
> > and a blind eye turned to their lawbreaking not once, but twice.
> When the
> > illegality of that conduct is challenged, the rules are       changed
> solely for
> > NSA's benefit. Talk about bigotry &       intolerance . . .and it's not
> coming
> > from those you apparently would       like to blame.
> >
> >
> > Saundra Lund
> > Moscow,       ID
> >
> > The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for       good 
> > people
> to do
> > nothing.
> > - Edmund Burke
> >
> >       ***** Original material contained herein is Copyright 2005, 
> > Saundra
>       Lund.
> > Do not copy, forward, excerpt, or reproduce outside the Vision 
> > 2020
> forum
> > without the express written permission of the       author.*****
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> _____________________________________________________
> List       services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities       of the Palouse since 1994.
> http://www.fsr.net
> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>     New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call     regular phones from your PC 
> and save big._____________________________________________________
>  List services made available by First Step Internet,
>  serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>                http://www.fsr.net
>           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates.
>
> ---------------------------------
> Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls.  Great 
> rates starting at 1&cent;/min.
>
>
> _____________________________________________________
>  List services made available by First Step Internet,
>  serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>                http://www.fsr.net
>           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Don't just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! 
> http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
>
> 




More information about the Vision2020 mailing list