[Vision2020] Eugenie Scott's Talk at U of I

[Tbertruss at aol.com]

All:

Michael Metzler wrote:

As someone like Alvin Plantinga would point out however, another option would 
be to see belief in God as properly basic: something immediately produced ‘
because’ of the ‘evidence’ presented to the senses of the complexity and beauty 
of the world, but not discursively ‘based upon’ propositional evidence 
derived from such experience. I’m sure, Bob, that you don’t mean that there is no ‘
logical connection’ at all between the idea of a Creator God and the ‘design’
 features of the world….
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I don't know if you are suggesting you believe in this statement above, or 
are merely presenting Plantinga's point of view to illuminate your discussion in 
some way.  

But to assert that belief in God is "something immediately produced ‘because’
 of the ‘evidence’ presented to the senses of the complexity and beauty of 
the world" is quite simply a factually incorrect statement, if applied to all 
human beings, at least if belief in a monotheistic God who created the universe 
is the sort of God referred to.  

I find it odd in the extreme that some discussions of Intelligent Design and 
Creationism appear to ignore the astonishing variety of different 
religious/spiritual views regarding creation of the Earth or the universe or the human 
species.  There are easily over a billion human beings on Earth who do not 
experience their religion or spirituality as involving this sort of belief in God 
(monotheistic God), produced by the complexity and beauty of the world.  I think 
a very good case can be made that belief in one powerful God who created the 
universe is a learned idea, and those who are taught in childhood and youth 
that there are a variety of Gods and/or Goddesses, or other forms of 
non-theistic "spirit forces," at play in the universe, will come to see the evidence of 
their senses in terms of these beliefs.

In fact, there is no necessity for a "creation" problem in a 
religious/spiritual tradition, at least in terms of the creation of the universe and the 
existence of intelligence.  Though I am not referring here to any specific 
religious tradition, it is entirely possible the universe and God were never created, 
but always have existed: the universe and God are both thus eternal, with God 
fulfilling a moral and spiritual role as "ruler" of the domain of "spirit," 
with the "materialistic" universe operating "separately," however someone may 
structure such a metaphysics.  Thus the entire debate about the creation of the 
universe or intelligence is avoided!  The universe and the intelligence of God 
has always existed!

That such an obvious and simple alternative is not considered, along with 
numerous other religious and spiritual beliefs of human beings regarding how they 
view "Creation," reveals how biased this discussion is toward a specific 
religious ideology seeking to find a rational and/or empirical basis for its 
existence:  in other words, this is a political/ideological power struggle, not a 
search for the truth considering with an open mind all the possible 
alternatives.

Perhaps an exploration of what human spiritual/religious traditions now and 
throughout history have believed about the issues of the creation of the 
universe, the Earth and/or human life can open this discussion up to more 
alternatives?

These two links below may offer some alternative views that are worth 
considering on this subject:

http://zebu.uoregon.edu/~js/21st_century_science/lectures/lec20.html

http://www.mythinglinks.org/ct~creation.html

Ted Moffett
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