[Vision2020] re:speaking of bicycles
Philip Cook
pcook818 at adelphia.net
Sun Oct 9 08:19:01 PDT 2005
Thanks, Tom. And my apologies to you for my one-word capitalization outburst. One of the things that has frustrated me about the current debate over Third Street (and many other issues) is the amount of misstatement of facts that's been generated. I believe debate about public policy is essential for democracy, good for community, and ultimately results in better decisions. I also believe that healthy debate requires facts portrayed as accurately we know them at the time, in addition to a wide range of opinions, beliefs, and perspectives about what the facts mean. I really do appreciate your contibutions to the debate.
I wholeheartedly agree with you that we need to be vigilant about how speed limits are set. It's been my experience that traffic engineers tend to use the 85 percentile for motor vehicle speed exclusively as the criterion for setting speed limits, when in fact they have a much broader set of criteria available to determine an appropriate limit (e.g., adjacent land uses, other road users). (Sorry for the jargon folks.) We need to be sure officials use every tool available to determine appropriate speed limits (as well as question the appropriateness and effectiveness of those tools.)
I also agree that better pedestrian signage is needed along Third Street in the Lena Whitmore school zone. Perhaps the City can apply for some of the newly appropriated Safe Routes to School funding to make this happen sooner rather than later. I also think the designating of truck routes is worth exploring in more detail.
Thanks again for your contributions to the discussion.
Philip Cook
Moscow, ID
> Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 09:44:18 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Tom Ivie <the_ivies3 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] re:speaking of bicycles
> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
>
> Phil,
> My apologies. I was going from my notes from the transportation commission meeting where Dan Weaver was in attendance. When asked about the speed limits by Tom LaPointe he said they were governed by the Idaho Code and set by engineering. In reviewing my notes last night I see that Les MacDonald stated that engineering had a say in the speed limit. When asked about the potential speed limit on Third Les and Dan both agreed that it would probably at least be 30mph. Just because they may have the power to lower the speed limit to a safe amount, does that guarantee it would be done? Case in point, there is no signage on Third St. to alert traffic that there is an elementary school (Lena Whitmore) and that children are crossing at Blaine. How long has the school been there? Are they going to use traffic counts from the summer time or during the school year? It was brought up at that meeting that the traffic counters also record speed of traveling vehicles. If you are going!
> to count
> traffic on 6th st., shouldn't you also count the traffic on 3rd at the same time in order to get an accurate reading? I would think that a slower speed limit would be more friendly for bicycles, don't you? Plus, take the heavy truck traffic off of East Third and it will be safer for bicycles and children crossing the street. If these heavy trucks are going to developments on Mt. View or Joseph, why are they using 3rd st. They should use state Hwy 8 and Mt. View, wouldn't you agree?
>
> Philip Cook <pcook818 at adelphia.net> wrote:> Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 14:25:12 -0700 (PDT)
> > From: Tom Ivie
> > Subject: [Vision2020] re:speaking of bicycles
>
> > April,
>
> >...... [cut]
>
> >The designation of the street dictates, through the Idaho Code, what the speed limit >will be. If Third is designated as an arterial the effective speed limit, dictated by >Idaho Code, will increase to 35mph.
>
>
> WRONG. See Idaho Code 49-207(2) and 49-208(1)(i). See also Moscow City Code Title 11 Sec. 1-3.
>
> Philip Cook
> Moscow
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 10:09:28 -0700
> From: sean <o2design at wsu.edu>
> Subject: [Vision2020] "Vandal"ism
> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Message-ID: <a06230908bf6c595e648d@[134.121.89.112]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> It strikes me as odd that physically
> non-destructive civil disobedience can be the
> tactic of choice (and the object of praise) by
> one political movement, only to have it be the
> object of disgust and overly serious
> consternation by another. When Earth First! does
> it those they poke fun at/curtail hate those
> tactics. They are called illegal, vandalism, or
> worse. The monkey wrenchers themselves call it
> civil disobedience warranted by the cause.
>
> Now, when bogus letters from an administrator are
> created or a mocking welcome sign is altered,
> it's--you guessed it--illegal, vandalism, or
> worse. Why aren't more folks laughing? Perhaps
> because they don't like the joke (ie, the
> political stance). The means of the message is
> attacked instead.
>
> Maybe what is really not appreciated is that "two
> can play that game", and that tactics held dear
> by one political slant can also be absconded by
> 'the enemy'. EF!ers get a kick out of sugar in a
> D8's fuel tank, but cry foul when Sage Brush
> Rebellion-ites drive a dozer into federal land
> cutting a new road.
>
> Perhaps tolerance should be not simply a nice
> catch phrase for ideologies but also for means by
> which free speech is conveyed. Unlikely, I
> suspect, because tolerance is a sham; when push
> comes to shove neither side tolerates what they
> despise. And neither side will likely tolerate a
> creative use of subversion when the message it
> carries is so intolerable.
>
> s
>
> >
> > ---- ----------------------
> >--------------------------------------------------
> > 0.28 MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR URI: Includes
> >a link to a likely spammer email
> >
> >On Oct 6, 2005, at 12:31 PM, Doug Jones wrote:
> >
> >>Wow, Nick "suspected a hoax immediately." Good work, Nick.
> >>
> >>The humor is pretty flat; I hope no one over here did it. Ask Joan O.
> >>
> >>Doug Jones
> >
> >Yes, why not ask me? Unlike those hilarious
> >"skylarkers" at the Kirk, I don't find vandalism
> >amusing. I didn't laugh when your Pastor's pals
> >altered the "Welcome to Moscow" sign to read
> >"Welcome to Hooters," and I was easily able to
> >contain my guffaws when more of your lot (with
> >the aid of a now ex-University of Idaho
> >administrator) used the university's own
> >photocopiers and fax machines to send out hoax
> >announcements of a "Topless And Proud"
> >conference in the College of Liberal Arts. Ooh,
> >my side. Would someone please pass the feather?
> >
> >While I often laugh at you, Doug Jones, I never laugh with you.
> >
> >Joan Opyr/Auntie Establishment
> >www.auntie-establishment.com
> >
> >
> >_____________________________________________________
> > List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > http://www.fsr.net
> > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> >ØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØ
>
>
> --
> Thanks,
> s
>
>
> * * * * * * * *
> Sean Michael
> .dwg
>
>
> "the climbs are life"
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 13:28:22 -0400
> From: heirdoug at netscape.net
> Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Supposed Letter from UI President
> To: kjajmix1 at msn.com ("keely emerinemix")
> Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Message-ID: <4C7676ED.138CFAD3.009A653F at netscape.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Keely,
>
> It was a joke.
> You can laugh.
> It's O.K.
> Breath.
>
> (this is sort of a haiku)
>
> Keely emerinemix" <kjajmix1 at msn.com> wrote:
>
> >If Dale thought this really came from White's office, he's not in his right
> >mind at all.
> >
> >Hey, boys -- pretty sophomoric stuff. I'd stop gloating; you fooled no one
> >and just embarrassed yourselves, if such is even possible any more.
> >
> >keely emerine mix
> >
> >
> >From: "Tom Hansen" <thansen at moscow.com>
> >To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> >Subject: [Vision2020] Supposed Letter from UI President
> >Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 12:15:14 -0700
> >
> >Greetings Visionaires -
> >
> >A letter, purported by Dale Courtney's website to have originated from UI
> >President White's office, was sent to all UI employees and staff.
> >
> >http://right-mind.us/blogs/blog_0/archive/2005/10/06/37165.aspx
> >
> >After contacting the UI President's Office, concerning this letter's
> >authenticity, it has been determined that the referenced letter DID NOT
> >originate from President White or his office.
> >
> >I am certain, however, that the appropriate authorities have been duly
> >notified.
> >
> >Take care, Moscow.
> >
> >Tom Hansen
> >Moscow, Idaho
> >
> >"Each time a man stands up for an ideal, or acts to improve the lot of
> >others, or strikes out against injustice, he sends forth a tiny ripple of
> >hope."
> >
> >Robert F. Kennedy
> >(1925-1968, American Attorney General, Senator)
> >
> >
> >
> >_____________________________________________________
> > List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > http://www.fsr.net
> > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> >¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
> >
> >_________________________________________________________________
> >FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now!
> >http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/
> >
> >_____________________________________________________
> > List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > http://www.fsr.net
> > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> >¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
> >
>
> __________________________________________________________________
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 11:35:12 -0600
> From: "Julie Crumley" <joodge at hotmail.com>
> Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Supposed Letter from UI President
> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Message-ID: <BAY101-F34E565C3F31B7E735C3A0AC3840 at phx.gbl>
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>
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> ------------------------------
>
> _____________________________________________________
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> http://www.fsr.net
> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
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> End of Vision2020 Digest, Vol 17, Issue 37
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