[Vision2020] Welcome Michael Metzler

[Nicholas Gier]

Greetings:

What a surprise to see Michael Metzler's postings.  It must be at least 
15 years since we have debated philosophical and theological issues.  
The last time we corresponded, it was about whether a deity who 
commanded genocide could be called good.  I argued  that such a being 
would be a moral monster, but I believe Michael defended the 
Hebrew deity on this point.  Is that still your position, Michael?

I want to congratulate Keeley on her answer to Michael's challenge, her 
superb description of a Christian view of homosexuality.  (Your powers 
of expression are amazing.)  I also want to commend Melynda on her fine 
posting on Wilson & Co. making the Trinity as an idol.  They use it as 
magic wand that makes anything they say good and beautiful.

But I'm really disappointed in Michael's feeble attempt to locate the 
Trinity in the Old Testament.  His reference to "angels of the Lord" 
does 
not support a triune deity of equal persons.  First of all, the Angel 
of the
Lord (malak Yahweh) is usually singular, clearly subordinate, and he 
leads the heavenly hosts (read armies) into battle. Second, angels are 
created beings and the three who appear to Abraham in Gen. 18 
mysteriously become become two when they arrive in Sodom.  Absolutely 
no triune deity of equal persons here.

The plural "let us make" in Gen. 1:26 has long been taken as a 
grammatical plural
of majesty--Michael admits as much--and Bible scholars will not allow 
Michael contradict himself by inferring a Trinity here.  I would guess 
that there is not much good scholarship at the link Michael offers.

There is indeed plurality in the Hebrew Godhead and I have written at 
some length on this at www.class.uidaho.edu/ngier/henotheism.htm and at 
www.class.uidaho.edu/ngier/trinity.htm.

I wonder if Michael agrees with Jones and Wilson on their Trinitarian 
formulations. In the essay (trinity.htm) I tried in vain to get Jones 
to defend his view against tritheism, but he avoided the issue entirely.

Glad to have you as part of the vision, and as you have already seen, 
most of us are civil and cordial, so hang in there.

Nick Gier