[Vision2020] Dale has a backbone? & George W. Vader?

Thu May 26 18:00:43 PDT 2005

Joan et. al.

I ignored Dale's blog for a long time thinking to even respond to some of the crap there not worth it.  But his web site keeps coming up on V2020 as a topic of discussion.

There has been some controversy about the new Star Wars movie regarding what some think is thinly veiled political jabs at the Bush administration.  Lucas denies this was his intention. 

George W. Vader?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20050522/ts_alt_afp/afpentertainmentfilm_050522202005

Ted Moffett

-----Original Message-----
From: Joan Opyr <joanopyr at earthlink.net>
To: Vision2020 Moscow <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Thu, 26 May 2005 15:11:14 -0700
Subject: [Vision2020] Dale has a backbone? Where? Is that it wiggling in the Rosauer's fish counter?

Hello Ted, 

First, I read the article you posted on election fraud, Ted -- the one Dale took as evidence of your paranoia. I, too, had hoped that it would stimulate discussion, but I didn't start the ball rolling because I quite simply found the facts too grim. I'm no political ostrich, as most here will attest, but good grief -- our last two presidential elections have been profoundly depressing for the democrats (note the small "d") among us. This will mark me forever as a geek, but there's a line in the new Star Wars movie that just about sums it up: Padme, watching the galactic republic devolve into a monarchy under the cover of endless war, remarks something along the lines of "Thus dies Liberty, to a thunderous applause." 

Dale is disingenuous. He's manipulative. He's unprofessional, discourteous, he is shallow and a wimp. Yes, a wimp. Despite his claims to have acquired a backbone in the Navy, Dale chooses to "debate" us not on Vision 2020, among the elbowing, jostling hoi-polloi, but from the safe distance of his self-moderated weblog. There, Dale sets the agenda and controls the discourse. He's never in danger of having his ass handed to him on a plate, as are the active participants of Vision 2020, myself included. This danger of being shown up, of being corrected, of having to admit to being wrong, or losing an argument, or making a mistake is the reason why Doug Wilson and Doug Jones, et al., left us in late 2003, the Winter of Their Discontent. They found that they were losing too many arguments making too few converts. Vision 2020 was not good hunting ground for lock-step thinkers. 

If you'll all excuse my language, Dale is a classic chickenshit. He nitpicks from a safe distance, tossing little bits of gravel at the big boys and girls. It's clear that he reads 2020 religiously, and then posts like mad about what he encounters here, but he does this in the guise of the tattle-tale tit. Dale nitpicks and runs away, living to pick another day. Backbone my fanny. Dale snatched a tentacle off a passing jellyfish and stuffed that wiggling length of slime down where his vertebrae ought to be. 

For all his faults (and they are many), Donovan, Dale's designated Roy Cohn, remains on Vision 2020. He fawns all over Dale on right-mind.us (have you considered a good tongue-scraping, Donovan? preferably with bleach?) but he hasn't run away or hidden his ignorant belligerence behind Mama Courtney's skirts. 

Which isn't to say that I read Donovan's posts -- 15 per day and counting -- because I don't. I have other hobbies, like breathing. 

Joan Opyr/Auntie Establishment 
www.joanopyr.com 

On May 26, 2005, at 1:57 PM, Tbertruss at aol.com wrote: 

> 
> Hello Julie: 
> 
> Anyone on the web can go to: 
> 
> http://vision2020.moscow.com 
> 
> and see the archives of Vision2020 which should have every Vision2020 > post for years back accessible. 
> 
> Here are the first two hits from a simple Google web search using my > name "ted moffett" 
> 
> Ted Moffett on Pacifism 
> ... Ted Moffett on Pacifism. Ted Moffett writes:. What amazes me, has > always amazed 
> me, since I was a teeny tiny person, is how this moral directive is > so ... 
> right-mind.us/archive/2004/11/04/560.aspx - 43k - Cached - > Similar pages 
> 
> 
> 
> Ted Moffett's Paranoia 
> ... Ted Moffett's Paranoia. Ted Moffet posted an article called “I > smell a Rat”. 
> Ted, how do you reply to Anne Applebaum's post about having faith in > ATMs, ... 
> right-mind.us/archive/2004/11/17/678.aspx - 42k - Cached - > Similar pages 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you can see, both of these hits are from Dale's web site where he > used Vision2020 posts I authored to create or attempt to create > discussion on his site. 
> 
> I can only conclude Dale is desperate to draw others to his site, so > he must steal controversy, as it were, from Vision2020. 
> 
> Below is a forwarded Vision2020 post I sent recently about Dale > Courtney's web site that generated zero comments on the Vision2020 > list. 
> 
> Subj: [Vision2020] Dale Courtney's Oversimplifications  
> Date: 5/21/2005 9:48:21 PM Pacific Daylight Time 
> From: Tbertruss at aol.com 
> To: dmcourtn at moscow.com, vision2020 at moscow.com 
> Sent from the Internet (Details) 
> 
> Mr. Dale Courtney et. al. 
> 
> Shortly after last fall's presidential election, I posted to V2020 an > article about the possibility of voting fraud and/or tampering.  I > consider this a nonpartisan issue that anyone who cares in the > slightest bit about the integrity of the electoral process would wish > to see explored and exposed.  I merely posted the article, without > writing any text, just signing my name. 
> 
> So how does Dale Courtney respond?  He places on his web site a post > in bold font announcing "Ted Moffett's Paranoia," suggesting that I > respond to another article about computer systems and paper trails. 
> 
> Regardless of the facts and arguments on the issue of computerized > voting, what kind of morality is behind placing on a public web site a > derogatory statement about the psychology of someone you don't know > who was merely making information available about a critical issue?  > If Dale did not post the statement in question, perhaps he needs to > moderate the content on his website?  But my best guess is that this > statement was authored by him. 
> 
> When I first discovered this juvenile and rude conduct on his web > site, I decided to ignore it. 
> 
> But today I found more nonsense on Mr. Courtney's web site.  > Apparently, he feels a need to lump together under the words "left" > and/or "lefty" a large group of people with widely varying views on > government.  Dale wrote in answer to a Joan Opry V2020 post: 
> 
> "First, I'm not Faul, or Stigmatta, or Fiat, or... That's not me. No > need. I don't play "hide-and-seek" games. I sign everything that's > mine. 20 years in the navy teaches one to have a backbone/spine. So > don't assign the methods of the Left (Ivan Brewski, Art Deco, JeanC, > Captain Kirker, R2 Privacy, Shelly, Tbertruss, DPQ, hayfields, LRR, > Nebar, Wocsom, etc) onto someone who behaves right (pun intended). Go > look somewhere else for your bogeymen. 
> 
> As I said previously, I do find it the height of hypocrisy that the > Left doesn't get bent out of shape when Lefties are anonymous. But let > someone they don't agree with try and be anonymous? Ah! The > intolerance of the Tolerant. I've come to expect nothing less." 
> 
> First off, Mr. Courtney, you need to follow the V2020 list more > closely if you are going to assume all those on the "left" are one > group that marches in lock step.  Tom Hansen, no doubt in your mind > one of those nefarious members of the "left," once chided on V2020 > yours truly for not signing a V2020 post.  So in fact on V2020 a > "lefty" chided a fellow "lefty" (this designation is only in Mr. > Courtney's mind, because I do not describe myself as a "lefty" or a > member of the "left") for not signing a V2020 post.  I argued once on > V2020 that perhaps not signing a V2020 post with a "real" name can in > some cases be justified.  Bill London, another individual I suspect > you would label "leftist," argued otherwise.   
> 
> I have occasionally not signed a V2020 post when using my AOL e-mail > address "tbertruss," but I nearly always do.  I am not trying to hide > behind "tbertruss."  Everyone who follows V2020 knows that "Art Deco" > is Wayne Fox, and "Nebar" is Jasper Nance.  The V2020 posts by these > individuals do not represent a deliberate attempt to hide their > identity, as Dale Courtney implied. 
> 
> "Faul," "Sigmatta" and "Fiat" were attempting to hide their > identities from the V2020 list, as far as I know. 
> 
> Who is looking for "bogeymen," as Dale Courtney wrote in response to > Joan Opry?  It seems Dale Courtney's stereotyping oversimplifying > views of this large and varied group of individuals he regards as > being members of the "left" qualify these "Lefty's" as his own > "bogeymen." 
> 
> Perhaps Mr. Courtney is so enamored of marching in lock step > utilizing a form of "group think" that he projects this manner of > thinking onto those he imagines oppose him. 
> 
> I will let the immortal words of Dale Courtney written to Joan Opry > on Mr. Courtney's web site express what I think about his statement > "Ted Moffett's Paranoia:"  
> 
> "So instead of trying to project your bias and venom on someone you > don't know, why don't you go do something useful." 
> 
> Links to the info on Dale Courtney's web site mentioned above: 
> 
> http://right-mind.us/archive/2004/11/17/678.aspx 
> 
> http://right-mind.us/archive/2005/01/27/1375.aspx 
> 
> http://right-mind.us/archive/2005/01/27/1377.aspx 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------- 
> 
> V2020 Post by Ted Moffett 
> _____________________________________________________ 
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> ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ 
> 
Joan Opyr/Auntie Establishment 
www.joanopyr.com 

_____________________________________________________
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