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<DIV>Joan et. al.</DIV>
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<DIV>I ignored Dale's <SPAN class=correction id="">blog</SPAN> for a long time thinking to even respond to some of the crap there not worth it. But his web site keeps coming up on <SPAN class=correction id="">V2020</SPAN> as a topic of discussion.</DIV>
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<DIV>There has been some <SPAN class=correction id="">controversy</SPAN> about the new Star Wars movie regarding what some think is thinly veiled political jabs at the Bush administration. Lucas denies this was his intention. </DIV>
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<DIV>George W. <SPAN class=correction id="">Vader</SPAN>?</DIV>
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<DIV><A href="http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20050522/ts_alt_afp/afpentertainmentfilm_050522202005">http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20050522/ts_alt_afp/afpentertainmentfilm_050522202005</A></DIV>
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<DIV>Ted <SPAN class=correction id="">Moffett</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>From: Joan <SPAN class=correction id="">Opyr</SPAN> <joanopyr@earthlink.net><BR>To: Vision2020 Moscow <vision2020@moscow.com><BR>Sent: Thu, 26 May 2005 15:11:14 -0700<BR>Subject: [Vision2020] Dale has a backbone? Where? Is that it wiggling in the <SPAN class=correction id="">Rosauer's</SPAN> fish counter?<BR><BR></DIV>
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<DIV class=AOLPlainTextBody id=AOLMsgPart_2_604b9d07-17b4-49e2-971b-4d31b337a43c>Hello Ted, <BR> <BR>First, I read the article you pos<SPAN class=correction id="">ted</SPAN> on election fraud, Ted -- the one Dale took as evidence of your paranoia. I, too, had hoped that it would stimulate discussion, but I didn't start the ball rolling because I quite simply found the facts too grim. I'm no political ostrich, as most here will attest, but good grief -- our last two presidential elections have been profoundly depressing for the democrats (note the small "d") among us. This will mark me forever as a geek, but there's a line in the new Star Wars movie that just about sums it up: <SPAN class=correction id="">Padme</SPAN>, watching the galactic republic devolve into a monarchy under the cover of endless war, remarks something along the lines of "Thus dies Liberty, to a thunderous applause." <BR> <BR>Dale is <SPAN class=correction id="">disingenuous</SPAN>. He'!
s manipulative. He's unprofessional, discourteous, he is shallow and a wimp. Yes, a wimp. Despite his claims to have acquired a backbone in the Navy, Dale chooses to "debate" us not on Vision 2020, among the elbowing, jostling hoi-polloi, but from the safe distance of his self-modera<SPAN class=correction id="">ted</SPAN> <SPAN class=correction id="">weblog</SPAN>. There, Dale sets the agenda and controls the discourse. He's never in danger of having his ass handed to him on a plate, as are the active participants of Vision 2020, myself included. This danger of being shown up, of being correc<SPAN class=correction id="">ted</SPAN>, of having to admit to being wrong, or losing an argument, or making a mistake is the reason why Doug Wilson and Doug Jones, et al., left us in late 2003, the Winter of Their Discontent. They found that they were losing too many arguments making too few converts. Vision 2020 was not good hunting ground for lock-step thinkers. <BR> <BR>If!
you'll all excuse my language, Dale is a classic <SPAN class=correcti
on id="">chickenshit</SPAN>. He <SPAN class=correction id="">nitpicks</SPAN> from a safe distance, tossing little bits of gravel at the big boys and girls. It's clear that he reads 2020 religiously, and then posts like mad about what he encounters here, but he does this in the guise of the tattle-tale tit. Dale <SPAN class=correction id="">nitpicks</SPAN> and runs away, living to pick another day. Backbone my <SPAN class=correction id="">fanny</SPAN>. Dale snatched a tentacle off a passing jellyfish and stuffed that wiggling length of slime down where his vertebrae ought to be. <BR> <BR>For all his faults (and they are many), Donovan, Dale's designa<SPAN class=correction id="">ted</SPAN> Roy Cohn, remains on Vision 2020. He fawns all over Dale on right-mind.us (have you considered a good tongue-scraping, Donovan? preferably with bleach?) but he hasn't run away or hidden his ignorant belligerence behind Mama <SPAN class=correction id="">Courtney's</SPAN> skirts.&nbs!
p;<BR> <BR>Which isn't to say that I read <SPAN class=correction id="">Donovan's</SPAN> posts -- 15 per day and counting -- because I don't. I have other hobbies, like breathing. <BR> <BR>Joan <SPAN class=correction id="">Opyr</SPAN>/Auntie Establishment <BR><A href="http://www.joanopyr.com" target=_blank>www.joanopyr.com</A> <BR> <BR> <BR>On May 26, 2005, at 1:57 PM, <A href="mailto:Tbertruss%40aol.com">Tbertruss@aol.com</A> wrote: <BR> <BR>> <BR>> Hello Julie: <BR>> <BR>> Anyone on the web can go to: <BR>> <BR>> <A href="http://vision2020.moscow.com" target=_blank>http://vision2020.moscow.com</A> <BR>> <BR>> and see the archives of Vision2020 which should have every Vision2020 > post for years back accessible. <BR>> <BR>> Here are the first two hits from a simple <SPAN class=correction id="">Google</SPAN> web search using my > name "<SPAN class=cor!
rection id="">ted</SPAN> <SPAN class=correction id="">moffett</SPAN>"&
nbsp;<BR>> <BR>> Ted <SPAN class=correction id="">Moffett</SPAN> on Pacifism <BR>> ... Ted <SPAN class=correction id="">Moffett</SPAN> on Pacifism. Ted <SPAN class=correction id="">Moffett</SPAN> writes:. What amazes me, has > always amazed <BR>> me, since I was a <SPAN class=correction id="">teeny</SPAN> tiny person, is how this moral directive is > so ... <BR>> right-mind.us/archive/2004/11/04/560.aspx - 43k - Cached - > Similar pages <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Ted <SPAN class=correction id="">Moffett</SPAN>'s Paranoia <BR>> ... Ted <SPAN class=correction id="">Moffett</SPAN>'s Paranoia. Ted <SPAN class=correction id="">Moffet</SPAN> pos<SPAN class=correction id="">ted</SPAN> an article called “I > smell a Rat”. <BR>> Ted, how do you reply to Anne <SPAN class=correction id="">Applebaum's</SPAN> post about having faith in > <SPAN class=correction id="">ATMs</SPAN>, ...&nb!
sp;<BR>> right-mind.us/archive/2004/11/17/678.aspx - 42k - Cached - > Similar pages <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> As you can see, both of these hits are from Dale's web site where he > used Vision2020 posts I authored to create or attempt to create > discussion on his site. <BR>> <BR>> I can only conclude Dale is desperate to draw others to his site, so > he must steal controversy, as it were, from Vision2020. <BR>> <BR>> Below is a forwarded Vision2020 post I sent recently about Dale > <SPAN class=correction id="">Courtney's</SPAN> web site that genera<SPAN class=correction id="">ted</SPAN> zero comments on the Vision2020 > list. <BR>> <BR>> <SPAN class=correction id="">Subj</SPAN>: [Vision2020] Dale <SPAN class=correction id="">Courtney's</SPAN> Oversimplifications <BR>> Date: 5/21/2005 9:48:21 PM Pacific Daylight Time <BR>> From: <A href!
="mailto:Tbertruss%40aol.com">Tbertruss@aol.com</A> <BR>> To:
<A href="mailto:dmcourtn%40moscow.com">dmcourtn@moscow.com</A>, <A href="mailto:vision2020%40moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A> <BR>> Sent from the Internet (Details) <BR>> <BR>> Mr. Dale Courtney et. al. <BR>> <BR>> Shortly after last <SPAN class=correction id="">fall's</SPAN> presidential election, I pos<SPAN class=correction id="">ted</SPAN> to <SPAN class=correction id="">V2020</SPAN> an > article about the possibility of voting fraud and/or tampering. I > consider this a nonpartisan issue that anyone who cares in the > slightest bit about the integrity of the electoral process would wish > to see explored and exposed. I merely pos<SPAN class=correction id="">ted</SPAN> the article, without > writing any text, just signing my name. <BR>> <BR>> So how does Dale Courtney respond? He places on his web site a post > in bold font announcing "Ted <SPAN class=correction id="">Moffett<!
/SPAN>'s Paranoia," suggesting that I > respond to another article about computer systems and paper trails. <BR>> <BR>> Regardless of the facts and arguments on the issue of computerized > voting, what kind of morality is behind placing on a public web site a > derogatory statement about the psychology of someone you don't know > who was merely making information available about a critical issue? > If Dale did not post the statement in question, perhaps he needs to > moderate the content on his <SPAN class=correction id="">website</SPAN>? But my best guess is that this > statement was authored by him. <BR>> <BR>> When I first discovered this juvenile and rude conduct on his web > site, I decided to ignore it. <BR>> <BR>> But today I found more nonsense on Mr. <SPAN class=correction id="">Courtney's</SPAN> web site. > Apparently, he feels a need to lump together under the words "left!
" > and/or "lefty" a large group of people with widely varying view
s on > government. Dale wrote in answer to a Joan <SPAN class=correction id="">Opry</SPAN> <SPAN class=correction id="">V2020</SPAN> post: <BR>> <BR>> "First, I'm not <SPAN class=correction id="">Faul</SPAN>, or <SPAN class=correction id="">Stigmatta</SPAN>, or Fiat, or... That's not me. No > need. I don't play "hide-and-seek" games. I sign everything that's > mine. 20 years in the navy teaches one to have a backbone/spine. So > don't assign the methods of the Left (Ivan <SPAN class=correction id="">Brewski</SPAN>, Art <SPAN class=correction id="">Deco</SPAN>, <SPAN class=correction id="">JeanC</SPAN>, > Captain <SPAN class=correction id="">Kirker</SPAN>, <SPAN class=correction id="">R2</SPAN> Privacy, <SPAN class=correction id="">Shelly</SPAN>, Tbertruss, <SPAN class=correction id="">DPQ</SPAN>, hayfields, <SPAN class=correction id="">LRR</SPAN>, > <SPAN class=correction id="">Nebar</SPAN>, <SPAN class=correction id="">Wocsom</SPAN>, !
etc) onto someone who behaves right (pun intended). Go > look somewhere else for your bogeymen. <BR>> <BR>> As I said previously, I do find it the height of hypocrisy that the > Left doesn't get bent out of shape when Lefties are anonymous. But let > someone they don't agree with try and be anonymous? Ah! The > intolerance of the Tolerant. I've come to expect nothing less." <BR>> <BR>> First off, Mr. Courtney, you need to follow the <SPAN class=correction id="">V2020</SPAN> list more > closely if you are going to assume all those on the "left" are one > group that marches in lock step. Tom Hansen, no doubt in your mind > one of those nefarious members of the "left," once chided on <SPAN class=correction id="">V2020</SPAN> > yours truly for not signing a <SPAN class=correction id="">V2020</SPAN> post. So in fact on <SPAN class=correction id="">V2020</SPAN> a > "lefty" chided a fellow "lefty" (this designa!
tion is only in Mr. > <SPAN class=correction id="">Courtney's</SPAN
> mind, because I do not describe myself as a "lefty" or a > member of the "left") for not signing a <SPAN class=correction id="">V2020</SPAN> post. I argued once on > <SPAN class=correction id="">V2020</SPAN> that perhaps not signing a <SPAN class=correction id="">V2020</SPAN> post with a "real" name can in > some cases be justified. Bill London, another individual I suspect > you would label "leftist," argued otherwise. <BR>> <BR>> I have occasionally not signed a <SPAN class=correction id="">V2020</SPAN> post when using my AOL e-mail > address "<SPAN class=correction id="">tbertruss</SPAN>," but I nearly always do. I am not trying to hide > behind "<SPAN class=correction id="">tbertruss</SPAN>." Everyone who follows <SPAN class=correction id="">V2020</SPAN> knows that "Art <SPAN class=correction id="">Deco</SPAN>" > is Wayne Fox, and "<SPAN class=correction id="">Nebar</SPAN>" is Jasper <SPAN class=c!
orrection id="">Nance</SPAN>. The <SPAN class=correction id="">V2020</SPAN> posts by these > individuals do not represent a deliberate attempt to hide their > identity, as Dale Courtney implied. <BR>> <BR>> "<SPAN class=correction id="">Faul</SPAN>," "<SPAN class=correction id="">Sigmatta</SPAN>" and "Fiat" were attempting to hide their > identities from the <SPAN class=correction id="">V2020</SPAN> list, as far as I know. <BR>> <BR>> Who is looking for "bogeymen," as Dale Courtney wrote in response to > Joan <SPAN class=correction id="">Opry</SPAN>? It seems Dale <SPAN class=correction id="">Courtney's</SPAN> stereotyping oversimplifying > views of this large and varied group of individuals he regards as > being members of the "left" qualify these "<SPAN class=correction id="">Lefty's</SPAN>" as his own > "bogeymen." <BR>> <BR>> Perhaps Mr. Courtney is so <SPAN class=correction id="">enamored<!
/SPAN> of marching in lock step > utilizing a form of "group think"
that he projects this manner of > thinking onto those he imagines oppose him. <BR>> <BR>> I will let the immortal words of Dale Courtney written to Joan <SPAN class=correction id="">Opry</SPAN> > on Mr. <SPAN class=correction id="">Courtney's</SPAN> web site express what I think about his statement > "Ted <SPAN class=correction id="">Moffett</SPAN>'s Paranoia:" <BR>> <BR>> "So instead of trying to project your bias and venom on someone you > don't know, why don't you go do something useful." <BR>> <BR>> Links to the info on Dale <SPAN class=correction id="">Courtney's</SPAN> web site mentioned above: <BR>> <BR>> <A href="http://right-mind.us/archive/2004/11/17/678.aspx" target=_blank>http://right-mind.us/archive/2004/11/17/678.aspx</A> <BR>> <BR>> <A href="http://right-mind.us/archive/2005/01/27/1375.aspx" target=_blank>http://right-mind.us/archive/2005/01/27/1375.aspx</A> !
;<BR>> <BR>> <A href="http://right-mind.us/archive/2005/01/27/1377.aspx" target=_blank>http://right-mind.us/archive/2005/01/27/1377.aspx</A> <BR>> <BR>> --------------------------------------------------------- <BR>> <BR>> V2020 Post by Ted <SPAN class=correction id="">Moffett</SPAN> <BR>> _____________________________________________________ <BR>> List services made available by First Step Internet, <BR>> serving the communities of the <SPAN class=correction id="">Palouse</SPAN> since 1994. <BR>> lank><A href="http://www.fsr.net" target=_bhttp://www.fsr.net</A> <BR>> <A href="mailto:Vision2020%40moscow.com"><SPAN class=correction id="">mailto</SPAN>:Vision2020@moscow.com</A> <BR>> ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ <BR>> <BR>Joan <SPAN class=correction id="">Opyr</SPAN>/Auntie Establishment <BR>!
<A href="http://www.joanopyr.com" target=_blank>www.joanopyr.com</A>&n
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