[Vision2020] an open letter -- What's That? Are you serious?

[Donovan Arnold]

Wayne,

Why are you quoting Mr. Dickison instead of Wilson?
Did Mr. Dickison get promoted to pastor of Christ
Church? 

Why are you quoting the Bible? Are you saying that
anyone that quotes the Bible is preaching murder? If
so we have many evil churches.

Second, preaching that someone deserves death and
actually preaching that we go get a knife, gun, or
rope and kill them is not the same thing. Christians
believe that everyone who has sinned against God
deserves death. It is only by His grace, and His grace
alone, that we are allowed to live. The point is, that
none of us are worthy of life and we all deserve to
die for our sins.

Third, you cut off the other parts of the sermon where
they preach forgiveness. Jesus came and died for our
sins so people do not have to endure the punishment
for their sins, Christ did that for us, and that is
the beauty of the Man. 

Although I do not agree with Wilson or anyone else
that holds the idea that homosexuals are sinners for
being born Gay, I do know that Wilson has clarified on
his Blog that he does not support the killing of
anyone outside the law.

You just want to believe that Wilson would actually be
in favor killing Homosexuals to justify your unethical
behavior. And that is fine, but do not say he is
telling members of his congregation to go out tonight
and kill a gay guy when he is not. If he is, you need
to call the police and warn those individuals he is
trying to kill.

Finally, using bright colors and big letters calling
others crazy for following the Bible is very offensive
to many people and does not help your cause of
conversion. 

Donovan J Arnold 

--- Art Deco <deco at moscow.com> wrote:

> Donovan asks:
> 
> Can you back your statement that Christ Church is
> preaching that individuals commit violence against
> other community members?
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.credenda.org/old/issues/vol3/magi3-9.htm
> 
> 
> "The civil magistrate is the minister of God to
> execute wrath on the wrongdoer (Rom. 13:4). God has
> not left his civil minister without guidance on how
> to exercise his office. The Scriptures set forth
> clear standards of judgment for many offenses.
> Capital crimes, for example, include premeditated
> killing (murder), kidnapping, sorcery, bestiality,
> adultery, homosexuality, and cursing one's
> parents..."
> 
> "In contemporary American jurisprudence, none of
> these offenses is punishable by death, with the
> occasional exception of murder. The magistrates have
> dispensed with God's standards of justice. Some
> Christians believe this is an improvement. They
> would be horrified to think that the "harsh"
> penalties of the law should still be applied.
> Sometimes this is the result of the mistaken belief
> that the Old Testament has no further application
> after the advent of Christ. This is an exegetical
> problem. Too often, it is the result of a sinful
> view of the criminal. This sin is called pity."
> 
> "If your brother, the son of your mother, your son
> or your daughter, the wife of your bosom, or your
> friend who is as your own soul, secretly entices
> you, saying, "Let us go and serve other gods,". . .
> you shall not consent to him or listen to him, nor
> shall your eye pity him, nor shall you spare him or
> conceal him; but you shall surely kill him..." 
> [Heresy:  Beware, ye not of the cult!]
> 
> "If two men fight together, and the wife of one
> draws near to rescue her husband from the hand of
> the one attacking him, and puts out the hand and
> seizes him by the genitals, then you shall cut off
> her hand; your eye shall not pity her..." 
> [Defending one's husband.]
> 
> God commands the judge to evaluate the crime rather
> than the criminal. If the crime is one for which God
> requires death, then death must be the punishment.
> Your eye shall not pity. Neither is the repentance
> of the accused relevant to the imposition of the
> sentence.  [Somehow it appears that Gregor has
> missed the central message of Jesus.]
> 
> "Thus, the Bible teaches that pity is not an option
> where God has decided the matter. The [civil]
> magistrate, God's minister, is to faithfully execute
> justice according to God's standard, not man's... 
> This means that we must return to an obedience which
> confines pity within the bounds which God has
> established for us."
> 
> Let's see:  Murder (by even a child), kidnapping,
> sorcery, bestiality, adultery, homosexuality,
> cursing one's parents, heresy, defending one's
> husband, etc. should be punished by death (by
> stoning) according to Gregor and by the extension of
> the Cult Master's statements, all of the Christ
> Church Cult.  
> 
> All these rules are established by the Cult Master's
> exclusive version of his alleged god, not one of the
> thousands (millions?) of other alleged gods, and
> with no accepted, successful method to decide which
> of these alleged gods, if any, is/are the real
> one(s).
> 
> Are these the views of mentally healthy adults?
> 
> 
> 
> Would you want to live anywhere where they (the
> Christ Church Cult) were in control?
> 
> 
> 
> Andreas writes:
> 
> "What is crazy is not that people object to this:
> what is crazy is that we, which is to say, Moscow
> and Latah County, are electing people who subscribe
> to this set of beliefs to public office. What is
> crazy is that we're taking their openly hypocritical
> cries for tolerance seriously."
> 
> Tell us, Donovan, how intolerant we are when:
> 
> "In Doug's America, you're first against the wall."
> 
> 
> Tolerance can end when ideas are expressed and
> argued for, for if those ideas do not survive
> critical examination they ought not be tolerated,
> especially if Draconian.  
> 
> Tolerance is not the uncritical acceptance of
> anything let alone the acceptance and/or permissive
> ignoring of the sociopathological,
> logically/epistemologically unsound, superstitious
> dicta from an obscenely ambitious,
> dishonest/hypocritical, but  small-minded/relatively
> ignorant small town parson.
> 
> 
> Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)
> deco at moscow.com
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Donovan Arnold"
> <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>
> To: "Jim Meyer" <m1e2y3e4 at moscow.com>;
> <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 5:13 PM
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] an open letter -- What's
> That? Are you serious?
> 
> 
> > Mr. Meyer,
> > 
> > You made the following allegations against CCers,
> "The
> > fact that  Christ Church representatives who
> benefit
> > from tax breaks publicly support  the idea that
> whole
> > groups of people are lower than them and that
> violence
> > against those people is somehow god's intent IS a
> > community issue"
> > 
> > Those are pretty serious charges Mr. Meyer!
> > 
> > Can you back your statement that Christ Church is
> > preaching that individuals commit violence against
> > other community members?
> > 
> > Has Christ Church, or any member(s) of Christ
> Church
> > acting on behalf of Christ Church, EVER physically
> > assault another member of this community?
> > 
> > 
> > Donovan J Arnold
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --- Jim Meyer <m1e2y3e4 at moscow.com> wrote:
> > 
> >> All,
> >> 
> >> Why don't we just stick with the facts instead of
> >> arguing about intended 
> >> meanings of famous sayings?
> >> 
> >> The facts are:
> >>     1. Christ Church and its related business
> >> ventures hide several 
> >> publishing efforts with gross profits of close to
> 1
> >> million 
> >> dollars--just for one of those businesses. This
> is a
> >> documentable fact 
> >> that can be found in county records. The fact
> that
> >> these businesses 
> >> exist is not an issue. The fact that these
> business
> >> ventures ask the 
> >> community for tax breaks IS a community issue.
> >> 
> >>     2. That fact that Doug Wilson is both
> permanent
> >> Trustee and Trustor 
> >> of  New St. Andrews and that he hires family
> members
> >> is not a community 
> >> issue. That New St. Andrews has a religious test
> for
> >> admission also is 
> >> not a community issue. The fact that tax breaks
> are
> >> requested from the 
> >> community for an organization that is not clearly
> >> proven non-profit  IS 
> 
=== message truncated ===

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