[Vision2020] University to charge 2.5 percent fee to creditcardscharges

Donovan Arnold donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
Thu Jun 9 17:39:59 PDT 2005


You simply do not listen to what people say.

First, you are incorrect about the health insurance.
All students must carry $500,000 or half a million in
catastrophic insurance coverage. You falsely wrote:

“According to the Registrar's office, IF a student in
involved with 
intramural sports they do have to have a $500K minimum
health insurance 
coverage...if, however, they are NOT involved in the
sports program, 
there is no minimum.”

All students must sign the following waiver to enroll
at the University of Idaho:

SHIP may provide better coverage and or/a lower cost
than other health insurance you
may have. If you wish to waive participation in the
SHIP, you must have health insurance
coverage that meets the following requirements:
1). A lifetime maximum benefit of $500,000 and covers
either illness or injury.
2). Covers injury while participating in intramural,
club, or NCAA intercollegiate sports
programs. (If the student will be participating in
such programs)."

If you doubt this may check here and view the waiver


If this is still unclear to you may contact:

Lori Krasselt, Student Benefits Specialist

Phone:   208-885-2210
Fax:      208-885-1002
Email:   health at uidaho.edu

Second, you are also incorrect about student
enrollment. I will say again and again, the
undergraduate population at UI has declined (compare
the years of 04, 05, and 06 to that of 03, both spring
and fall semesters) and the graduate population has

If not, why has the Faculty Council been discussing
the decline in undergraduate enrollment if there was
not a decline in student enrollment?

The ASUI gets $44.50 per undergraduate student and
they lost money. They got less money this last year
than before. If enrollment went up so should have
their budget because they are directly connected. 

But what is more important is that the UI has not met
their enrollment goals. Without these enrollment goals
budget cuts are going to be even deeper because the UI
loses out on state funding based on enrollment. 

Third, you have the business and architecture programs
confused as one program. They are not. Business
students must buy a laptop computer for $500 a
semester for four semesters, or $2000. However, I
bought a laptop computer that does the same thing for
$650. That is a difference of $1350. In addition, I
can do with the computer what I want. When they
purchase the computer it is not determined by the
JUNIOR or SENIOR level, but by the classes they take.
A SOPHOMORE can take a JUNIOR course and may have to
based on when a course is being offered. 

The architecture program is much different. They need
the computer for the purposes of doing architecture
design. They are required to buy CAD, which is an
expensive program, about $1000. The students are
required to purchase a computer, and the program CAD,
and leave the computer in the architecture building.
So if they want a home computer too they have to buy
another computer. 

Fourth, you misunderstand how grants and loans work.
First, loans and scholarships have a cap, or a limit.
A student cannot take out unlimited amounts of loans,
grants, and scholarships. The Federal Government only
allows up to $16,500 for assistance total. And
usually, only law students with no family support can
qualify for this amount. Take out the cost of tuition
($4250), books ($1250), and insurance ($1000) that
leaves $9,000 a year for food, housing, co-payments,
utilities, transportation, personal needs, etc.
Undergraduates get much less than this amount.

What you fail to understand is that you cannot go over
that $16,500 or $13,500 level for undergraduates, in
grants, scholarships, and loans. Students are capped.
Those that cannot make it on the $13,500 are just

Next, you falsely claims that things are the same
today as they were 40 years ago when you were a child.

“Even as a child I remember people who worked to get
through college and they didn't boo-hoo about it...it
was just a known fact that once you hit 18 (at least)
you started working, if you were going to school or

A college education is needed today and costs a great
deal more. Most college students do work. I did, and
almost everyone I knew did. 

Finally, if I did say, "the student has no other
choice but to put it on the credit card" that would be
stupid. Thank God I did not say it, but in fact said,

“If the government expects your family to contribute
$6000 a year to your education but Mom and Pop can
only fork out $3000 the student has no other choice
but to put it on the credit card and try to pay
it off with a part-time job.”

In case you do not understand that long sentence, let
me explain, if you do not have any money and nobody;
Mom and Dad, Aunt Jane, and Uncle Sam will not give
you money, you have to pay for it with a job. Since
all the money is due at that start of the semester,
the student has to pay all the money at the start of
the semester, and unless they got a big advance or
want a bounced check, they put the costs on the card.

Donovan J Arnold

--- J Ford <privatejf32 at hotmail.com> wrote:

> WHERE do you get your information?  Is this stuff
> you make up to justify 
> your points of view or what?
> In re: to 200 less students...there is never a year
> that goes by that some 
> students are not "lost" during the year due to
> finances, health, lack of 
> interest, etc.  This is normal and every school
> experiences those kinds of 
> losses.  It is in no way different these last few
> years or even this year 
> for the UI.  Again, the fact is that until this next
> fall, the UI has 
> experienced a gain in students every year and this
> year it will break even 
> with last fall's numbers or very slightly higher.
> "MOST freshman and sophomore students do not qualify
> for enough subsidized 
> loans..."?  Says who?  The fact is that everyone is
> eligible to apply for 
> fed/state loans and most are eligible to apply for
> the Pell grant and most 
> are eligible to apply for scholarships of MANY
> kinds.  While some don't get 
> the loan amounts they feel they should due to
> parental income, MOST do.  The 
> loans etc. are based on parental income, or if you
> are a "non-typical" 
> student (meaning you are entering school at a later
> age) the loans are based 
> on YOUR income.  The point is, freshman/sophomores
> are no more hampered from 
> getting the same loans than juniors or seniors
> simply because they are lower 
> classman.  It is all based on the income of the
> parent/non-typical student.  
> According to the Financial Aide people at UI, if an
> unsubsidized loan is not 
> enough to get a student into school, there are
> scholarships and the Pell 
> grant offered that will make it possible to get the
> school fees and 
> tuition/supplies paid for.  According to that
> office, "there is no HUGE 
> amount of freshman/sophomores that use a credit card
> to get into school.  
> There is information of many other ways provided to
> them that allows them to 
> avoid the use of credit cards to pay for things." 
> While freshman/sophomores 
> are not offered the same amount of loans as the
> upper classmen, there are 
> ways to fund their schooling that are being used and
> don't involve the use 
> of credit cards.
> According to the Registrar's office, IF a student in
> involved with 
> intramural sports they do have to have a $500K
> minimum health insurance 
> coverage...if, however, they are NOT involved in the
> sports program, there 
> is no minimum.  The UI insurance program costs the
> student $1036/year and 
> covers them no matter where they may be if/when the
> need to use the health 
> insurance arises.  If the student is covered by a
> spouse or parent, all they 
> have to do is provide proof of that and that charge
> goes away.
> Your statement of " the student has no other choice
> but to put it on the 
> credit card" is not only wrong, it is very
> uneducated.  Not only are there 
> other ways possible, there are other ways being
> used.  Credit card use is a 
> very small percentage when compared to the other
> options out there.
> Going into debt by use of credit cards is a CHOICE
> people make - knowing the 
> risks and responsibilities involved.  IF they don't,
> they simply have no 
> business "owning" a credit card.  Who says it should
> be a free ride for 
> anyone going to school anyway?  Even as a child I
> remember people who worked 
> to get through college and they didn't boo-hoo about
> it...it was just a 
> known fact that once you hit 18 (at least) you
> started working, if you were 
> going to school or not.  Most of the kids I grew up
> as well as myself 
> started working at the age of 14...something that
> seems foreign to some 
> folks now-a-days.
> According to the College of Business and the
> Architecture College, while the 
> Business and Architecture students do have to buy
> some programming and 
> computers that are specific for their degree
> program, those costs are not 
> encumbered until the student is a JUNIOR and the
> charges are about 
> $500/semester; the student is then able to buy the
> computer at the end of 
> their studies for $1.  If the student decides to
> quit their program(s) the 
> student has the option to return the computers, etc.
> and do not incur any 
> additional charges or they can continue to make the
> semester payments until 
> the computer is paid off.  Again, this is for JUNIOR
> grade students, not 
> freshman/sophomores.  There are some scholarship
> programs out there that 
> include the cost of computers in the scholarship as
> well (Computer Science 
> has such a scholarship program.)
> J  ;)
> >From: Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>
> >To: Ron Force <rforce at moscow.com>,
> vision2020 at moscow.com
> >Subject: RE: [Vision2020] University to charge 2.5
> percent fee to 
> >creditcardscharges
> >Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 19:56:49 -0700 (PDT)
> >
> >Mr. Force,
> >
> >Most freshman and sophomore students do not qualify
> >for enough subsidized loans to meet all their room,
> >board, tuition, medical and book expenses.
> >
> >The government deducts the "expected family
> >contribution" from the maximum amount you can
> qualify
> >for in loans. If the government expects your family
> to
> >contribute $6000 a year to your education but Mom
> and
> >Pop can only fork out $3000 the student has no
> other
> >choice but to put it on the credit card and try to
> pay
> >it off with a part-time job. I only qualified for
> >$3000 in aid my sophomore year and nothing my
> freshman
> >year.
> >
> >In addition there are increasing expenses the
> >University has added onto that the federal
> government
> >does not count as an expense when calculating your
> >maximum financial award package. For example, all
> >students are required to have $500,000 in
> catastrophic
> >coverage. This costs students about $1000 out of
> >pocket expenses if they are not covered their
> parents.
> >Business and architecture majors also have to also
> pay
> >thousands in computer software and hardware that
> are
> >also not counted as expected costs.
> >
> >So in a dream world, yes students should and most
> do
> >take all they can get in loans and scholarships but
> >more often than not this is not enough for freshman
> >and sophomore students.
> >
> >Donovan J Arnold
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >--- Ron Force <rforce at moscow.com> wrote:
> >
> > > It would be very foolish for students to charge
> > > their education expenses on
> > > a credit card when there are subsidized student
> > > loans at a fraction of the
> > > interest rate.
> > >
> > > BTW, I just bought some auto parts from a local
> > > merchant, and was charged a
> > > fee to use my credit card.
> > >
> > > **********************************************
> > > Ron Force          Moscow ID USA
=== message truncated ===

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