[Vision2020] 07 05 05 Ny Times: United Church
ofChristBacksSame-Sex Marriage
Pat Kraut
pkraut at moscow.com
Tue Jul 12 09:52:08 PDT 2005
If they can convince us that this has been a normal practice throughout
history then they think they can justify their actions today and 'prove'
that the stand against homesexuality is wrong is our problem. It is the
argument of a thirteen year old...'everybody else is doing it'. If it is
wrong I don't care who else did it and just being famous is not reason
enough to follow the beliefs of anyone.
PK
----- Original Message -----
From: "lfalen" <lfalen at turbonet.com>
To: "Tom Hansen" <thansen at moscow.com>; "'Pat Kraut'" <pkraut at moscow.com>;
"'vision2020'" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Monday, July 11, 2005 12:52 PM
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] 07 05 05 Ny Times: United Church
ofChristBacksSame-Sex Marriage
Not that it makes any difference, but I would question some 20 plus of the
names on your list being accurate. Some were great people some were
scoundrels. Whether they were homosexual is debatable. You may be right, I
don't know. Lord Byron was a notoriouss womanizer. He may not have had a
preference, I don't know. There were accusations against J. Edgar Hoove made
by his enemies. I don't know that they have been shown to be any thing more
than accusations made to discredit him. I have never seen anything on
Eleanor Roosevelt or about 20 other people on you list. Against that doesn't
mean anything.
-----Original message-----
From: "Tom Hansen" thansen at moscow.com
Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2005 06:48:42 -0700
To: "'Pat Kraut'" pkraut at moscow.com
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] 07 05 05 Ny Times: United Church of
ChristBacksSame-Sex Marriage
> You may be on to something there, Ms. Kraut.
>
> We certainly cannot have our children growing up thinking (or for that
> matter, believing) that homosexuals are people with human emotions.
>
> We must identify homosexuals and eliminate them. It's the moral thing to
> do. Right, Ms. Kraut?
>
> Perhaps another concept we should adapt concerning our children is "Out of
> sight, out of mind." We should purge any and all documents, films,
photos,
> etc. etc. that depict any of the following homosexuals. After all, it is
> only right.
>
> This list is not all inclusive, just a mere spattering of homosexuals in
> history. You've got to start somewhere.
>
> Right, Ms. Kraut?
>
> *Macedonian Ruler, 300 B.C.
> Socrates
> *Greek Philosopher, 400 B.C.
> Sappho
> *Greek Woman Poet, 600 B.C.
> Hadrian
> *Roman Emperor, 1st-2nd c.
> Richard the Lionhearted
> *English King, 12th c.
> Saladin
> *Sultan of Egypt and Syria
> Desiderius Erasmus
> *Dutch Monk, Philosopher
> Francis Bacon
> *English statesman, author
> Frederick the Great
> *King of Prussia
> Lord Byron
> *English poet, 18th c.
> Walt Whitman
> *U.S. poet, author, 19th c.
> Oscar Wilde
> *Irish author, 19th c.
> Marcel Proust
> *French author, 20th c.
> Colette
> *French author, 20th c.
> Gertrude Stein
> *U.S. poet, author, 20th c.
> Alice B. Toklas
> *U.S. author, 20th c.
> Federico Garcia Lorca
> *Spanish author, 20th c.
> Cole Porter
> *U.S. composer, 20th c.
> Virginia Woolf
> *English author, 20th c.
> Leonard Bernstein
> *U.S. composer, 20th c.
> Pope Julius III
> *1550-1555
> T.E. Lawrence
> *English soldier, author, 20th c.
> Jean Cocteau
> *French writer, director, 20th c.
> Charles Laughton
> *English actor, 20th c.
> Marguerite Yourcenar
> *Belgian author, 20th c.
> Tennessee Williams
> *U.S. Playwright, 20th c.
> James Baldwin
> *U.S. author, 20th c.
> Andy Warhol
> *U.S. artist, 20th c.
> Michelangelo
> *Italian artist, 15th c.
> Leonardo Da Vinci
> *Ital. Artist, scientist, 15th c.
> Christopher Marlowe
> *Eng. Playwright, 16th c.
> Herman Melville
> *U.S. author, 19th c.
> Horatio Alger, Jr.
> *U.S. author, 19th c.
> Tchaikovsky
> *Russian composer, 19th c.
> Willa Cather
> *U.S. author, 19th c.
> Amy Lowell
> *U.S. author, 19th & 20th c.
> E.M. Forster
> *English author, 20th c.
> John M. Keynes
> *English economist, 20th c.
> Ludwig Wittgenstein
> *Australian mathematician, 20th c.
> Bessie Smith
> *U.S. singer, 20th c.
> Noel Coward
> *English playwright, 20th c.
> Christopher Isherwood
> *English author, 20th c.
> Pier Paolo Pasolini
> *Italian film director, 20th c.
> Yukio Mishima
> *Japanese author, 20th c.
> Eleanor Roosevelt
> *U.S. stateswoman, 20th c.
> Julius Caesar
> *Roman Emperor, 100-44 B.C.
> Augustus Caesar
> *Roman Emperor
> Harvey Milk
> *U.S. politician, 20th c.
> Bayard Rustin
> *U.S. Civil Rights activist, 20th c.
> James I
> *English King, 16th-17th c.
> Queen Anne
> *English Queen, 18th c.
> Marie Antoinette
> *French Empress, 18th c.
> Melissa Etheridge
> *U.S. Rock Star, 20th c.
> Pope Benedict IX
> *1032-1044
> May Sarton
> *U.S. author, (1912 - 1995)
> Edna Ferber
> *U.S. author, 20th c.
> Elton John
> *English Rock Star, 20th c.
> Margaret Fuller
> *U.S. writer, educator, 20th c.
> Montezuma II
> *Aztec ruler, 16th c.
> Peter the Great
> *Russian Czar, 17th-18th c.
> Langston Hughes
> *U.S. author, 20th c.
> Pope John XII
> *955-964
> Madame de Stael
> *French writer, 17th-18th c.
> Martina Navratilova
> *U.S. tennis star, 20th c.
> Greg Louganis
> *U.S. Olympic swimmer, 20th c.
> Billie Jean King
> *U.S. tennis star, 20th c.
> Roberta Achtenburg
> *U.S. politician, 20th c.
> Barney Frank
> *U.S. Congressman, 20th c.
> Gerry Studds
> *U.S. Congressman, 20th c.
> Hans Christian Andersen
> *Danish author, 19th c.
> Tom Dooley
> *U.S. M.D. missionary, 20th c.
> J. Edgar Hoover
> *U.S. director of the FBI., 20th c.
> Frida Kahlo
> *Mexican artist, 20th c.
> Suleiman the Magnificent
> *Ottoman ruler, 15th c.
> Rock Hudson
> *U.S. actor, 20th c.
> Sor Juana Ines de la Cruz
> *Mexican author, 16th c.
> Ralph Waldo Emerson
> *U.S. author, 19th c.
> Candace Gingrich
> *Gay Rights activist, 20th c.
> Margarethe Cammermeyer
> *U.S. Army Colonel, 20th c.
> Zoe Dunning
> *U.S. Military Reservist, 20th c.
> Tom Waddel
> *U.S. M.D., Olympic star, 20th c.
> Kate Millet
> *U.S. author, 20th c.
> Janis Joplin
> *U.S. singer, 20th c.
> Rudolf Nuryev
> *Russian dancer, 20th c.
> Waslaw Nijinsky
> *Russian dancer, 20th c.
> Ernst Röhm
> *German Nazi leader, 20th c.
> Dag Hammerskjold
> *Swedish UN Secretary, 209th c.
> Aristotle
> *Greek philosopher, 384-322 B.C.
> Paula Gunn Allen
> *Native American author, 20th c.
> Angela Davis
> *U.S. political activist, 20th c.
> June Jordan
> *U.S. author, activist, 20th c.
> Rainer Maria Rilke
> *German poet, 20th c.
> James Dean
> *U.S. actor, 20th c.
> Montgomery Clift
> *U.S. actor, 20th c.
> Baron VonSteuben
> *German General, Valley Forge
> Edward II
> *English King, 14th c.
>
> Take care, Moscow.
>
> Tom Hansen
>
>
> We could learn a lot from crayons: some are sharp, some are pretty, some
are
> dull, some have weird names, and all are different colors....but they all
> exist very nicely in the same box.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]
> On Behalf Of Pat Kraut
> Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 9:54 PM
> To: vision2020
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] 07 05 05 Ny Times: United Church of
> ChristBacksSame-Sex Marriage
>
> You truly cannot see the difference...no wonder our kids don't know what
> morality is. We are doomed!
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Scott Dredge" <sdredge at yahoo.com>
> To: "donald toogood" <dtoogood at email.com>; <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 7:40 PM
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] 07 05 05 Ny Times: United Church of Christ
> BacksSame-Sex Marriage
>
>
> Maybe you didn't understand my comment. At one point
> in this country not so long ago (around 1950), many
> states outlawed interracial marriages...something like
> 38 states banned them. Some had bans within their
> state constitutions. The reason why I bring this up
> is that it is a direct parallel to banning same sex
> marriage.
>
> Roughly 60 years ago in this country, interracial
> marriages were banned. A black man marrying a white
> woman was illegal. A white man marrying a black woman
> was illegal. You claim this isn't the same thing as a
> man marrying a man or a woman marrying a woman. Why?
> If at one point, there were laws against interracial
> marriage and same sex marriage, what's the difference?
> They were both considered illegal marriages.
>
> Married can mean between a man and a woman. However,
> same sex couples in a civil union deserve the exact
> same rights as married couples.
>
> -Scott
>
>
>
>
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