[Vision2020] 07 05 05 Ny Times: United Church ofChristBacksSame-Sex Marriage

lfalen lfalen at turbonet.com
Mon Jul 11 12:52:54 PDT 2005


Not that it makes any difference, but I would question some 20 plus of the names on your list being accurate. Some were great people some were scoundrels. Whether they were homosexual is debatable. You may be right, I don't know. Lord Byron was a notoriouss womanizer. He may not have had a preference, I don't know. There were accusations against J. Edgar Hoove made by his enemies. I don't know that they have been shown to be any thing more than accusations made to discredit him. I have never seen anything on Eleanor Roosevelt or about 20 other people on you list. Against that doesn't mean anything.
-----Original message-----
From: "Tom Hansen" thansen at moscow.com
Date: Sat,  9 Jul 2005 06:48:42 -0700
To: "'Pat Kraut'" pkraut at moscow.com
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] 07 05 05 Ny Times: United Church of
	ChristBacksSame-Sex Marriage

> You may be on to something there, Ms. Kraut.
> 
> We certainly cannot have our children growing up thinking (or for that
> matter, believing) that homosexuals are people with human emotions.  
> 
> We must identify homosexuals and eliminate them.  It's the moral thing to
> do.  Right, Ms. Kraut?
> 
> Perhaps another concept we should adapt concerning our children is "Out of
> sight, out of mind."  We should purge any and all documents, films, photos,
> etc. etc. that depict any of the following homosexuals.  After all, it is
> only right.
> 
> This list is not all inclusive, just a mere spattering of homosexuals in
> history.  You've got to start somewhere.
> 
> Right, Ms. Kraut?
> 
>      *Macedonian Ruler, 300 B.C.
>  Socrates
>      *Greek Philosopher, 400 B.C.
>  Sappho
>      *Greek Woman Poet, 600 B.C.
>  Hadrian
>      *Roman Emperor, 1st-2nd c.
>  Richard the Lionhearted
>      *English King, 12th c.
>  Saladin
>      *Sultan of Egypt and Syria
>  Desiderius Erasmus
>      *Dutch Monk, Philosopher
>  Francis Bacon
>      *English statesman, author
>  Frederick the Great
>      *King of Prussia
>  Lord Byron
>      *English poet, 18th c.
>  Walt Whitman
>      *U.S. poet, author, 19th c.
>  Oscar Wilde
>      *Irish author, 19th c.
>  Marcel Proust
>      *French author, 20th c.
>  Colette
>      *French author, 20th c.
>  Gertrude Stein
>      *U.S. poet, author, 20th c.
>  Alice B. Toklas
>      *U.S. author, 20th c.
>  Federico Garcia Lorca
>      *Spanish author, 20th c.
>  Cole Porter
>      *U.S. composer, 20th c.
>  Virginia Woolf
>      *English author, 20th c.
> Leonard Bernstein
>      *U.S. composer, 20th c.
>  Pope Julius III
>      *1550-1555
>  T.E. Lawrence
>      *English soldier, author, 20th c.
>  Jean Cocteau
>      *French writer, director, 20th c.
>  Charles Laughton
>      *English actor, 20th c.
>  Marguerite Yourcenar
>      *Belgian author, 20th c.
>  Tennessee Williams
>      *U.S. Playwright, 20th c.
>  James Baldwin
>      *U.S. author, 20th c.
>  Andy Warhol
>      *U.S. artist, 20th c.
>  Michelangelo
>      *Italian artist, 15th c.
>  Leonardo Da Vinci
>      *Ital. Artist, scientist, 15th c.
>  Christopher Marlowe
>      *Eng. Playwright, 16th c.
>  Herman Melville
>      *U.S. author, 19th c.
>  Horatio Alger, Jr.
>      *U.S. author, 19th c.
>  Tchaikovsky
>      *Russian composer, 19th c.
> Willa Cather
>      *U.S. author, 19th c.
>  Amy Lowell
>      *U.S. author, 19th & 20th c.
>  E.M. Forster
>      *English author, 20th c.
>  John M. Keynes
>      *English economist, 20th c.
>  Ludwig Wittgenstein
>      *Australian mathematician, 20th c.
>  Bessie Smith
>      *U.S. singer, 20th c.
>  Noel Coward
>      *English playwright, 20th c.
>  Christopher Isherwood
>      *English author, 20th c.
>  Pier Paolo Pasolini
>      *Italian film director, 20th c.
>  Yukio Mishima
>      *Japanese author, 20th c.
>  Eleanor Roosevelt
>      *U.S. stateswoman, 20th c.
>  Julius Caesar
>      *Roman Emperor, 100-44 B.C.
>  Augustus Caesar
>      *Roman Emperor
>  Harvey Milk
>      *U.S. politician, 20th c.
>  Bayard Rustin
>      *U.S. Civil Rights activist, 20th c.
>  James I
>      *English King, 16th-17th c.
>  Queen Anne
>      *English Queen, 18th c.
>  Marie Antoinette
>      *French Empress, 18th c.
>  Melissa Etheridge
>      *U.S. Rock Star, 20th c.
>  Pope Benedict IX
>      *1032-1044
>  May Sarton
>      *U.S. author, (1912 - 1995)
>  Edna Ferber
>      *U.S. author, 20th c.
>  Elton John
>      *English Rock Star, 20th c.
>  Margaret Fuller
>      *U.S. writer, educator, 20th c.
>  Montezuma II
>      *Aztec ruler, 16th c.
>  Peter the Great
>      *Russian Czar, 17th-18th c.
>  Langston Hughes
>      *U.S. author, 20th c.
>  Pope John XII
>      *955-964
>  Madame de Stael
>      *French writer, 17th-18th c.
>  Martina Navratilova
>      *U.S. tennis star, 20th c.
>  Greg Louganis
>      *U.S. Olympic swimmer, 20th c.
>  Billie Jean King
>      *U.S. tennis star, 20th c.
>  Roberta Achtenburg
>      *U.S. politician, 20th c.
>  Barney Frank
>      *U.S. Congressman, 20th c.
>  Gerry Studds
>      *U.S. Congressman, 20th c.
>  Hans Christian Andersen
>      *Danish author, 19th c.
>  Tom Dooley
>      *U.S. M.D. missionary, 20th c.
>  J. Edgar Hoover
>      *U.S. director of the FBI., 20th c.
>  Frida Kahlo
>      *Mexican artist, 20th c.
>  Suleiman the Magnificent
>      *Ottoman ruler, 15th c.
>  Rock Hudson
>      *U.S. actor, 20th c.
>  Sor Juana Ines de la Cruz
>      *Mexican author, 16th c.
>  Ralph Waldo Emerson
>      *U.S. author, 19th c.
>  Candace Gingrich
>      *Gay Rights activist, 20th c.
>  Margarethe Cammermeyer
>      *U.S. Army Colonel, 20th c.
>  Zoe Dunning
>      *U.S. Military Reservist, 20th c.
>  Tom Waddel
>      *U.S. M.D., Olympic star, 20th c.
>  Kate Millet
>      *U.S. author, 20th c.
>  Janis Joplin
>      *U.S. singer, 20th c.
>  Rudolf Nuryev
>      *Russian dancer, 20th c.
>  Waslaw Nijinsky
>      *Russian dancer, 20th c.
>  Ernst Röhm
>      *German Nazi leader, 20th c.
>  Dag Hammerskjold
>      *Swedish UN Secretary, 209th c.
>  Aristotle
>      *Greek philosopher, 384-322 B.C.
>  Paula Gunn Allen
>      *Native American author, 20th c.
>  Angela Davis
>      *U.S. political activist, 20th c.
>  June Jordan
>      *U.S. author, activist, 20th c.
>  Rainer Maria Rilke
>      *German poet, 20th c.
>  James Dean
>      *U.S. actor, 20th c.
>  Montgomery Clift
>      *U.S. actor, 20th c.
>  Baron VonSteuben
>      *German General, Valley Forge
>  Edward II
>      *English King, 14th c.
> 
> Take care, Moscow.
> 
> Tom Hansen
> 
> 
> We could learn a lot from crayons: some are sharp, some are pretty, some are
> dull, some have weird names, and all are different colors....but they all
> exist very nicely in the same box. 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]
> On Behalf Of Pat Kraut
> Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 9:54 PM
> To: vision2020
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] 07 05 05 Ny Times: United Church of
> ChristBacksSame-Sex Marriage
> 
> You truly cannot see the difference...no wonder our kids don't know what
> morality is. We are doomed!
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Scott Dredge" <sdredge at yahoo.com>
> To: "donald toogood" <dtoogood at email.com>; <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 7:40 PM
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] 07 05 05 Ny Times: United Church of Christ
> BacksSame-Sex Marriage
> 
> 
> Maybe you didn't understand my comment.  At one point
> in this country not so long ago (around 1950), many
> states outlawed interracial marriages...something like
> 38 states banned them.  Some had bans within their
> state constitutions.  The reason why I bring this up
> is that it is a direct parallel to banning same sex
> marriage.
> 
> Roughly 60 years ago in this country, interracial
> marriages were banned.  A black man marrying a white
> woman was illegal.  A white man marrying a black woman
> was illegal.  You claim this isn't the same thing as a
> man marrying a man or a woman marrying a woman.  Why?
> If at one point, there were laws against interracial
> marriage and same sex marriage, what's the difference?
>  They were both considered illegal marriages.
> 
> Married can mean between a man and a woman.  However,
> same sex couples in a civil union deserve the exact
> same rights as married couples.
> 
> -Scott
> 
> 
> 
> 
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