[Vision2020] 07 05 05 Ny Times: United
ChurchofChristBacksSame-Sex Marriage
Art Deco
deco at moscow.com
Tue Jul 12 12:26:29 PDT 2005
I am disappointed that some of the so-called libertarians on this list have
not responded to this argument. Or is the concept of individual liberty,
choice, and aspiration in its death throes?
W.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Pat Kraut" <pkraut at moscow.com>
To: "vision2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 9:52 AM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] 07 05 05 Ny Times: United
ChurchofChristBacksSame-Sex Marriage
> If they can convince us that this has been a normal practice throughout
> history then they think they can justify their actions today and 'prove'
> that the stand against homesexuality is wrong is our problem. It is the
> argument of a thirteen year old...'everybody else is doing it'. If it is
> wrong I don't care who else did it and just being famous is not reason
> enough to follow the beliefs of anyone.
> PK
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "lfalen" <lfalen at turbonet.com>
> To: "Tom Hansen" <thansen at moscow.com>; "'Pat Kraut'" <pkraut at moscow.com>;
> "'vision2020'" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Sent: Monday, July 11, 2005 12:52 PM
> Subject: RE: [Vision2020] 07 05 05 Ny Times: United Church
> ofChristBacksSame-Sex Marriage
>
>
> Not that it makes any difference, but I would question some 20 plus of the
> names on your list being accurate. Some were great people some were
> scoundrels. Whether they were homosexual is debatable. You may be right, I
> don't know. Lord Byron was a notoriouss womanizer. He may not have had a
> preference, I don't know. There were accusations against J. Edgar Hoove
> made
> by his enemies. I don't know that they have been shown to be any thing
> more
> than accusations made to discredit him. I have never seen anything on
> Eleanor Roosevelt or about 20 other people on you list. Against that
> doesn't
> mean anything.
> -----Original message-----
> From: "Tom Hansen" thansen at moscow.com
> Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2005 06:48:42 -0700
> To: "'Pat Kraut'" pkraut at moscow.com
> Subject: RE: [Vision2020] 07 05 05 Ny Times: United Church of
> ChristBacksSame-Sex Marriage
>
>> You may be on to something there, Ms. Kraut.
>>
>> We certainly cannot have our children growing up thinking (or for that
>> matter, believing) that homosexuals are people with human emotions.
>>
>> We must identify homosexuals and eliminate them. It's the moral thing to
>> do. Right, Ms. Kraut?
>>
>> Perhaps another concept we should adapt concerning our children is "Out
>> of
>> sight, out of mind." We should purge any and all documents, films,
> photos,
>> etc. etc. that depict any of the following homosexuals. After all, it is
>> only right.
>>
>> This list is not all inclusive, just a mere spattering of homosexuals in
>> history. You've got to start somewhere.
>>
>> Right, Ms. Kraut?
>>
>> *Macedonian Ruler, 300 B.C.
>> Socrates
>> *Greek Philosopher, 400 B.C.
>> Sappho
>> *Greek Woman Poet, 600 B.C.
>> Hadrian
>> *Roman Emperor, 1st-2nd c.
>> Richard the Lionhearted
>> *English King, 12th c.
>> Saladin
>> *Sultan of Egypt and Syria
>> Desiderius Erasmus
>> *Dutch Monk, Philosopher
>> Francis Bacon
>> *English statesman, author
>> Frederick the Great
>> *King of Prussia
>> Lord Byron
>> *English poet, 18th c.
>> Walt Whitman
>> *U.S. poet, author, 19th c.
>> Oscar Wilde
>> *Irish author, 19th c.
>> Marcel Proust
>> *French author, 20th c.
>> Colette
>> *French author, 20th c.
>> Gertrude Stein
>> *U.S. poet, author, 20th c.
>> Alice B. Toklas
>> *U.S. author, 20th c.
>> Federico Garcia Lorca
>> *Spanish author, 20th c.
>> Cole Porter
>> *U.S. composer, 20th c.
>> Virginia Woolf
>> *English author, 20th c.
>> Leonard Bernstein
>> *U.S. composer, 20th c.
>> Pope Julius III
>> *1550-1555
>> T.E. Lawrence
>> *English soldier, author, 20th c.
>> Jean Cocteau
>> *French writer, director, 20th c.
>> Charles Laughton
>> *English actor, 20th c.
>> Marguerite Yourcenar
>> *Belgian author, 20th c.
>> Tennessee Williams
>> *U.S. Playwright, 20th c.
>> James Baldwin
>> *U.S. author, 20th c.
>> Andy Warhol
>> *U.S. artist, 20th c.
>> Michelangelo
>> *Italian artist, 15th c.
>> Leonardo Da Vinci
>> *Ital. Artist, scientist, 15th c.
>> Christopher Marlowe
>> *Eng. Playwright, 16th c.
>> Herman Melville
>> *U.S. author, 19th c.
>> Horatio Alger, Jr.
>> *U.S. author, 19th c.
>> Tchaikovsky
>> *Russian composer, 19th c.
>> Willa Cather
>> *U.S. author, 19th c.
>> Amy Lowell
>> *U.S. author, 19th & 20th c.
>> E.M. Forster
>> *English author, 20th c.
>> John M. Keynes
>> *English economist, 20th c.
>> Ludwig Wittgenstein
>> *Australian mathematician, 20th c.
>> Bessie Smith
>> *U.S. singer, 20th c.
>> Noel Coward
>> *English playwright, 20th c.
>> Christopher Isherwood
>> *English author, 20th c.
>> Pier Paolo Pasolini
>> *Italian film director, 20th c.
>> Yukio Mishima
>> *Japanese author, 20th c.
>> Eleanor Roosevelt
>> *U.S. stateswoman, 20th c.
>> Julius Caesar
>> *Roman Emperor, 100-44 B.C.
>> Augustus Caesar
>> *Roman Emperor
>> Harvey Milk
>> *U.S. politician, 20th c.
>> Bayard Rustin
>> *U.S. Civil Rights activist, 20th c.
>> James I
>> *English King, 16th-17th c.
>> Queen Anne
>> *English Queen, 18th c.
>> Marie Antoinette
>> *French Empress, 18th c.
>> Melissa Etheridge
>> *U.S. Rock Star, 20th c.
>> Pope Benedict IX
>> *1032-1044
>> May Sarton
>> *U.S. author, (1912 - 1995)
>> Edna Ferber
>> *U.S. author, 20th c.
>> Elton John
>> *English Rock Star, 20th c.
>> Margaret Fuller
>> *U.S. writer, educator, 20th c.
>> Montezuma II
>> *Aztec ruler, 16th c.
>> Peter the Great
>> *Russian Czar, 17th-18th c.
>> Langston Hughes
>> *U.S. author, 20th c.
>> Pope John XII
>> *955-964
>> Madame de Stael
>> *French writer, 17th-18th c.
>> Martina Navratilova
>> *U.S. tennis star, 20th c.
>> Greg Louganis
>> *U.S. Olympic swimmer, 20th c.
>> Billie Jean King
>> *U.S. tennis star, 20th c.
>> Roberta Achtenburg
>> *U.S. politician, 20th c.
>> Barney Frank
>> *U.S. Congressman, 20th c.
>> Gerry Studds
>> *U.S. Congressman, 20th c.
>> Hans Christian Andersen
>> *Danish author, 19th c.
>> Tom Dooley
>> *U.S. M.D. missionary, 20th c.
>> J. Edgar Hoover
>> *U.S. director of the FBI., 20th c.
>> Frida Kahlo
>> *Mexican artist, 20th c.
>> Suleiman the Magnificent
>> *Ottoman ruler, 15th c.
>> Rock Hudson
>> *U.S. actor, 20th c.
>> Sor Juana Ines de la Cruz
>> *Mexican author, 16th c.
>> Ralph Waldo Emerson
>> *U.S. author, 19th c.
>> Candace Gingrich
>> *Gay Rights activist, 20th c.
>> Margarethe Cammermeyer
>> *U.S. Army Colonel, 20th c.
>> Zoe Dunning
>> *U.S. Military Reservist, 20th c.
>> Tom Waddel
>> *U.S. M.D., Olympic star, 20th c.
>> Kate Millet
>> *U.S. author, 20th c.
>> Janis Joplin
>> *U.S. singer, 20th c.
>> Rudolf Nuryev
>> *Russian dancer, 20th c.
>> Waslaw Nijinsky
>> *Russian dancer, 20th c.
>> Ernst Röhm
>> *German Nazi leader, 20th c.
>> Dag Hammerskjold
>> *Swedish UN Secretary, 209th c.
>> Aristotle
>> *Greek philosopher, 384-322 B.C.
>> Paula Gunn Allen
>> *Native American author, 20th c.
>> Angela Davis
>> *U.S. political activist, 20th c.
>> June Jordan
>> *U.S. author, activist, 20th c.
>> Rainer Maria Rilke
>> *German poet, 20th c.
>> James Dean
>> *U.S. actor, 20th c.
>> Montgomery Clift
>> *U.S. actor, 20th c.
>> Baron VonSteuben
>> *German General, Valley Forge
>> Edward II
>> *English King, 14th c.
>>
>> Take care, Moscow.
>>
>> Tom Hansen
>>
>>
>> We could learn a lot from crayons: some are sharp, some are pretty, some
> are
>> dull, some have weird names, and all are different colors....but they all
>> exist very nicely in the same box.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com
>> [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]
>> On Behalf Of Pat Kraut
>> Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 9:54 PM
>> To: vision2020
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] 07 05 05 Ny Times: United Church of
>> ChristBacksSame-Sex Marriage
>>
>> You truly cannot see the difference...no wonder our kids don't know what
>> morality is. We are doomed!
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Scott Dredge" <sdredge at yahoo.com>
>> To: "donald toogood" <dtoogood at email.com>; <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>> Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 7:40 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] 07 05 05 Ny Times: United Church of Christ
>> BacksSame-Sex Marriage
>>
>>
>> Maybe you didn't understand my comment. At one point
>> in this country not so long ago (around 1950), many
>> states outlawed interracial marriages...something like
>> 38 states banned them. Some had bans within their
>> state constitutions. The reason why I bring this up
>> is that it is a direct parallel to banning same sex
>> marriage.
>>
>> Roughly 60 years ago in this country, interracial
>> marriages were banned. A black man marrying a white
>> woman was illegal. A white man marrying a black woman
>> was illegal. You claim this isn't the same thing as a
>> man marrying a man or a woman marrying a woman. Why?
>> If at one point, there were laws against interracial
>> marriage and same sex marriage, what's the difference?
>> They were both considered illegal marriages.
>>
>> Married can mean between a man and a woman. However,
>> same sex couples in a civil union deserve the exact
>> same rights as married couples.
>>
>> -Scott
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>
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