[Vision2020] The Future

[Phil Nisbet]

Saundra

Of course other people have different concerns than I do, that should be 
obvious since we are not drones or ants in some mindless colony.  Human's 
make a social judgement and form communities based on very different 
criteria than do ants.  That is the whole point Saundra.

You form inclusive communities by finding consensus and including others who 
do not share or hold the exact opinions that you do.  All the utopian 
communes that have tried to weed out and exclude have always fallen straight 
on their a-ses.  A lasting and vibrant community is one that can accept the 
highest degree of variance from the norm in its members.  Its called 
diversity and its why America works.

But you do not breed diversity by looking for and attacking the areas that 
divide us.  You build community by looking for what makes us one and find 
rules to insure that we can live with the differences between us.

I wrote what I wrote, Saundra, because we need to find first causes, the 
things that are most important to the community as a whole and the things 
that bring us together rather than drive us apart.

So, yes Saundra, I do belittle those who make a choice to draft lists of 
people that they will not work with and hate.  I do question the wish to 
build community on the basis of not what is most important, but what divides 
us.

Just a simple example;

I do not eat organic food, but I support the efforts of the people growing 
it.  Any value added product this area can produce is a net community good.  
That the bulk of the grows of organic crops may have political differences 
with me because I work in the mining industry has no consequence to me, 
since I see what they are doing as a benefit to my community.  That being 
the case, I do not then run to IDWR and turn them all in for using water to 
irrigate their crops without a permit and try to force them all out of 
business, even if they oppose and create political problems for moving 
forward on my mining project out in Bovill.  Instead, as a communitarian, I 
seek to see that they get the required water rights so that their activities 
are legal and they can continue to help our community grow.

Did you ever take the time to go have a meeting with Doug Wilson?  Did you 
ask him if there was a way to address your concerns?

Did Lois or the MCA ever ask to meet with the Naylors?  Did they ever ask 
them to address their concerns?

And I am talking about talks not in front of governmental authorities, 
before an inquisition seeking the various people's blood, property and 
general rights.  I am talking about talking to somebody as a community 
member.

During the height of the resource wars I used to attend Wild Idaho at Red 
Fish Lake.  I did that because I wanted to know what concerns those who were 
against me had and how I might be able to find common ground with them.  And 
there was a suprising amount of common ground Saundra, that all but the most 
fanatic could see if they looked for it.

So you have disagreements with the CCers Trinity Fest thing?  Why not ask 
Wilson if you can put up a both on diversity at the function?  Dislike the 
location of NSA, come up with alternatives that help see it moved to a more 
favorable location.  Start looking for ways to live together in peace, not 
gird for war and rattle sabres in front of the authorities.

So I ask again, what is the most important issue facing Moscow and what can 
we do as all of us together in a single community to face and win on that 
issue?  I see it as our economy and want people to suggest how we can make 
that strong without fundementally destroying who we are as a group or 
community.  What are your top priorities, Saundra, things that effect us 
alland that we can all work together on?

Does that make the picture any clearer?

Phil Nisbet

>From: "Saundra Lund" <sslund at adelphia.net>
>To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>Subject: RE: [Vision2020] The Future
>Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2005 15:17:12 -0700
>
>Phil:
>
>Not for the first time, I obviously didn't clearly communicate my point.
>
>First, I didn't assume you were talking about me, but rather about everyone
>you consider to be "quibbling over the tiny stuff."  I used myself as an
>example because that was easy  :-)
>
>I stand by my position that that you are arguing from a false either/or
>position.  There is no reason people who you perceive to be "quibbling over
>the tiny stuff" can't also be concerned about what you perceive to be the
>"important" stuff.
>
>Second, I also stand by my position that I think it works against
>community-building to belittle & minimize the interests & concerns of those
>who have different interests & concerns from yourself.
>
>You also asked, "If everybody was flush, do you think that anybody would
>care if we put in a new bunch of school buildings?"
>
>YES:  I think that even if everyone was flush, there would be a segment of
>our community that would organize to keep new public schools from being
>built.  While I believe that public education is a public Good, I also
>recognize there are folks in this community who don't share that view and
>don't want their taxes going to support it in much the same way, I suppose,
>that I don't want my tax burden increased to support the advancement of any
>particular religion to the detriment of all the other religions.
>
>
>HTH,
>Saundra Lund
>Moscow, ID
>
>The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do
>nothing.
>Edmund Burke
>
>***** Original material contained herein is Copyright 2005, Saundra Lund.
>Do not copy, forward, excerpt, or reproduce outside the Vision 2020 forum
>without the express written permission of the author.*****
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]
>On Behalf Of Phil Nisbet
>Sent: Friday, 01 July 2005 7:39 PM
>To: vision2020 at moscow.com
>Subject: RE: [Vision2020] The Future
>
>Saundra
>
>Why do you assume that I was refering to you?  Was there anything in what I
>wrote that belittled your position?
>
>I am suggesting to you that no matter what your other positions, if we have
>no University here and or that University is slowly but surely cut to near
>nothingness, all your other concerns won't be worth warm spit.  If all 
>these
>rental properties are not full of students and all those students are not
>putting Mom and Dads money into Moscow's economy, how long do you think 
>that
>it will be before this town will simply blow away on the Palouse winds?
>
>This town needs to protect its most important asset, the U of I and at the
>same time it needs to diversify to add what Aaron Harp refered to as
>additional legs to the areas economy.  What are your property taxes going 
>to
>be like if we see a major down turn in U of I funding or enrollments?
>
>So, yes, I see that as a pretty major area that we can all agree on, the
>areas economy needs to be strong and we are tied to the University to see
>that it remains so.
>
>Look at it this way, if we are all goat smellingly poor and in financial
>pain, then everything is fair and equitable, but I do not think that 
>anybody
>wants that kind of equality.
>
>If we are so busy leveling the playing field that the audience and the
>players all exit stage right, do you think that people will congratulate us
>on our diligence, or do you think they will be screaming for their money
>back?
>
>Pounding NSA for a few dollars in Taxes is not going to do anything to help
>us have better schools or open and maintain parks or beautify downtown or
>any other thing.  Generating new sources of tax revenue by attracting new
>business, pushing to add revenues from more money coming in from the
>University in research funding and boosting the sales from our existing
>businesses are what can get the dollars needed.
>
>If everybody was flush, do you think that anybody would care if we put in a
>new bunch of school buildings?  People were worried about money, since the 
>U
>of I had cuts and more might just be on the way, so they turned down the
>School District on bond levies.  If the University was booming or we had a
>new large employer to boost economics for the community, they would have
>passed that levy in a trice.
>
>So is taxing NSA or Logos going to raise enough money to cover what that
>bond would have?
>
>And once you understand that, where do you think we need to concentrate our
>efforts?  Because there are only so many people and only so many hours in
>the day, priorites do have to be made.
>
>So please, if I am wrong and we should drop worrying primarily about making
>sure we still have an econmy here as our top community concern, make the
>case so I can understand why thats so.  And if indeed our priority needs to
>be spending hours and lucre and community time on rounding up a few cases 
>of
>people who should be paying a few grand in taxes, make the case for why its
>more important than trying to get millions more in tax reciepts from new
>business.  I will gladly endorse your cause if you can show me that with 
>our
>limited funds and time, its whats best for the future of the community.
>
>Phil Nisbet
>
>
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