[Vision2020] Buy Depends.
Mike Hall
mikehall at moscow.com
Mon Feb 28 07:53:16 PST 2005
Donovan,
Thank you for a breath of common sense and decorum. I went to the website
you referenced below and lo and behold, look what I found (see below). I
guess Hall Closet Uniforms has come onto the radar of these folks as well.
I've seen Wayne Fox mention us once in a list of boycotted stores a while
back, but I wasn't aware we had risen to the level of parody. I suppose
that where my wife and I go to church indicates that we are guilty of
something? Am I going to have a yellow star of David painted on our front
window soon? This behavior looks more and more nazi-like every day. What
is going on here?
Having started in our basement in Viola six years ago, we are still just a
small business trying to provide good products and services, trying to make
a go of it. We serve public charter schools, Christian schools, Mormon
schools, Catholic schools, even a school for the gifted. The other day we
even got a web order from a tribe in Oklahoma for some blazers. We serve
local businesses that used to have to go to Spokane to find professional
uniforms. We even have comfortable shoes for those who are on their feet a
lot. I'd invite anyone to come by and check them out. Everyone raves about
them... :^)
As long as I'm on my soapbox, I'm curious about statements that Christ
Church is a cult as well. Having grown up in a Baptist Church and then
mainstream evangelical churches in Silicon Valley, I have yet to hear any
so-called "cult teachings" that diverge wildly from other evangelical
churches I've been to. From what I have heard taught and from what I have
read, Christ Church is planted square in the middle of the reformed
evangelical Christian tradition. If that's what constitutes a cult, then
you'll have to lump millions of folks, spanning several centuries, into that
category.
As for Doug Wilson as a pastor and a godly man, I've only seen him to be a
consistent and caring shepherd. He is someone who genuinely cares for
people. He is not afraid to preach the Bible, even the un-politically
correct parts that many pastors today avoid like the plague. Thus he
demonstrates character and backbone in the face of great opposition. And he
is not stand-offish with "celeb-itis" like some evangelical leaders in
America that have had successful ministries. How can biblical teaching make
him a bad person? There are many, many folks in this community, from many.
many churches throughout the Palouse, who are in the same boat, that believe
the same things he teaches every Sunday.
I think you are right that many folks in our community are sickened by the
character assassination that goes on regularly on this forum. And then to
lump everyone who knows Doug, or goes to Christ Church, into a cult? I know
that is not what this forum was created for.
In closing, I have just one request. Please include our url in any future
references to HCU. (I'm sure I'll get blasted for peeking my head up out of
my foxhole.) It really does help with google search rankings to have our
domain linked from other places on the web, and since v2020 posts are
archived, every little bit helps.
Thanks,
Mike Hall
http://www.hallclosetuniforms.com
http://www.auntie-establishment.com/KirkaAcademy.html
Your school uniforms can be purchased for two hundred clams at Sal's Uniform
Closet. (You could purchase dem elsewhere's for less, maybe, but we wouldn't
recommend it. See? Good.) Blue or black pinstripe suit, purple acetate
shirt wit matching necktie, black nylon socks, and shiny black shoes. No
exceptions. We don't want to see no baggy phat pants wit your underwear
hanging over da top like you was a gangsta, capische? You're a gang-ster.
You know da difference? Probably not, but at La Kirka Nostra Academy,
you'll learn it, Day One.
-----Original Message-----
From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]
On Behalf Of Donovan Arnold
Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2005 10:28 PM
To: sslund at adelphia.net; auntiestablishment at hotmail.com;
vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Buy Depends.
Hi Saundra,
I am awfully sorry that you were offended by my email, that was not my aim.
However, those are my feelings and the feelings of many others in this
community about the methods and obsession with Doug Wilson. Many people will
not tell you this because they are afraid you and others on V2020 will cut
them down and steamroll over them. I know because they privately email or
tell me so in person. And not just people that are supporters of Doug
Wilson, but people that also dislike Mr. Wilson.
My objection is not with the standing against Mr. Wilson. I support
challenging him and his ideology, as does probably about 75% of the
community. However, a line must be drawn in the manner in which people go
about addressing these concerns. I feel people have stepped over the line
and need to be told so. I do not find it acceptable to do the following
things:
1) Accusing a man or woman in the community of abuse without evidence
legal
evidence of a court conviction. This is totally rude, and unethical. If you
have evidence of Doug Wilson abusing women and children or other members of
his congregation, you need to go to the police and report it and allow the
legal system to try and convict him. I would feel the same way if someone
accused you of abusing your child. That is a very SERIOUS and damaging
allegation and you better have more than hearsay to make that claim on a
public forum.
2) Character assassination is the wrong direction. Things like this:
http://www.auntie-establishment.com/LaKirkaNostra.html
How would you like it if someone did that to you? This is clearly an attempt
to make fun of Mr. Wilson. It doesn’t address any key issues. It is made for
the pure enjoyment and entertainment of those that oppose Mr. Wilson. Moscow
is better than this type of behavior. I feel I must speak out against it.
3) This issue is way overrepresented on V2020 and overshadowing other
pressing issues facing members of the community. Several people have counted
that 50% of the posts on V2020 in the last six months are about Doug Wilson,
or in some connection to him. Furthermore, not much of it is factually
supported evidence, but just slander, speculation, and hearsay.
What about other issues? What the fact that 30% of the people in Moscow now
have inadequate health insurance because Gritman and UI agreed to require
students to have $500,000 in catastrophic health insurance and a $1,000,000
life policy in order to switch to another company and get medical services
that would better address their medical needs, like Dental care, and HIV
testing?
What about the fact that property owners don’t shovel snow and people get
injured?
What about the lack of low income housing in Moscow? Everyday the elderly,
poor, and those with disabilities are trying to get housing they can afford.
Nothing from liberals on V2020 about this issue.
What about the poor water quality?
What about the fact that minimum wage has not gone up in about ten years and
people are still working for that wage of $5.15?
What about the lack of crosswalks across out busy streets where children and
students cross?
What about the fact that the University eliminated the Office of Human
Rights? I didn’t see anyone from V2020 there when we faced the University
Administration.
You guys were not even there to help the Democrats move office locations?
Not one of you showed up to help move so much as chair or box of pencils.
Liberals use to stand for freedom of religion, rights for the poor and
minorities, proper health care, and quality and accessiable education. I
can see that is not the case anymore.
SO I am sorry that you are offended. I am offended likewise in the this type
of behavior from many of the community members. But yes, I am appreciative
of all the volunteer work that ALL people do, even those that attend Christ
Church and serve on the Gritman Board of Directors. But I strongly feel that
many of the attacks against Wilson & Friends are nothing more than libel and
slander, and the preoccupation with this one issue comes at a great cost in
not addressing the many other issues and concerns facing all people in
Moscow and Latah.
My concern is that we set standards for the community, and that everyone,
even Wilson, has the right to not to be charged, tried, and convicted by the
same five people on V2020 using any methods they choose. Burning the entire
village to save it is a bad philosophy. If speaking my concerns offends
you or anyone else, you have my deepest apologies, but those are my feelings
and your words and actions have sparked this response from me.
Take Care,
Donovan J Arnold
>From: "Saundra Lund" <sslund at adelphia.net>
>To: "'Donovan Arnold'" <donovanarnold at hotmail.com>,
><auntiestablishment at hotmail.com>, <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Buy Depends.
>Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 11:40:41 -0800
>
>Hi Donovan,
>
>You wrote:
>"What is with this obsession with Doug Wilson? Where do you people get your
>time to do this stuff. Don't you have other interests and community
>concerns
>than this one man?"
>
>Sorry . . . your are simply wrong & uninformed. I happen to know more than
>a few community members who are concerned about The Church of the
>Intolerant
>Leaders (aka Christ Church hierarchy) and the harm they cause not only our
>community but also those within their own congregation, and I'm offended by
>your stereotyping, not to mention that it's just plain WRONG. I can't
>speak
>for all of us, but concerned folks I know within and without our community
>*do* have other interests and community (& state & national and
>international) concerns and interests they are actively involved with and
>participate in with passion.
>
>I think an apology is in order -- just because you aren't aware of all the
>good works done by others doesn't negate the value. Slamming people
>because
>you're uninformed isn't helpful and it's unfair.
>
>You also wrote:
>"Why not try beating the guy by reducing his membership with logic,
>reasoning, truth and ethics rather than slander and force?"
>
>Well, where have you been?!?!? That's exactly what's been happening and
>successfully, too.
>
>Some of us understand the complete wickedness of spiritual & pastoral abuse
>and the harm they cause. Try actually talking to someone whose been a
>victim -- there are folks right here in our community who could open your
>eyes. Short of that, I suggest you do some reading about it, and then
>perhaps you'll have an inkling of why folks in this community -- and
>elsewhere -- fight it where we find it.
>
>
>Saundra Lund
>Moscow, ID
>
>The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do
>nothing.
>Edmund Burke
>
>
>_____________________________________________________
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_____________________________________________________
List services made available by First Step Internet,
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
http://www.fsr.net
mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
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