[Vision2020] Wal-Mart meeting

g. crabtree jampot at adelphia.net
Wed Dec 21 06:28:03 PST 2005


Ms. Mix, This, I am sure, is where the real debate will be. I for one, do 
not grasp your arguements, mainly because they are far too tenious to get a 
grip on. As far as where Donovan shops, I am certain he can work that out 
all by himself.

GC
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "keely emerinemix" <kjajmix1 at msn.com>
To: <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>; <sslund at adelphia.net>; 
<vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 9:30 PM
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Wal-Mart meeting


> True -- Saundra Lund is my friend, and I will defend her.
>
> True -- Even if I never met Saundra Lund, or met her and didn't like her, 
> I would defend her right to speak and would thank her for the many times 
> she's done so.
>
> True -- I am not willing to automatically afford Donovan Arnold the moral 
> high ground in any argument.
>
> Also true, but overlooked by our vehement WalMart defender, is that 
> WalMart is ALREADY IN MOSCOW.  No one would keep you from shopping there, 
> Donovan, and, in fact, I would drive you there myself if you felt you had 
> to go.  But many of us object to an expanded, new, Superstore.  Surely you 
> see the difference.  If not, please study up.  And until you have a better 
> grasp of the arguments, please try to be kind.  It's cheap, filling, and 
> easy to do from home.
>
> keely
>
>
> From: Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>
> To: Saundra Lund <sslund at adelphia.net>, vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Wal-Mart meeting
> Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 21:13:38 -0800 (PST)
>
> Saundra,
>
>  I assume nothing. That is just  all that you have offered the community. 
> I need not look far to see how  far out you have gone in your irrational 
> thinking with attempts to stop  religions from practicing communion with 
> sacramental wine. Not even  prohibition forbid that.
>
>  I do not care if you were once  pregnant, single, with 18 children, 
> working five jobs, and living in a  shoe box with no help or even a word 
> of peace from even God almighty.  It does not give you the right to take 
> away the right of people living  on limited incomes, or anyone for that 
> matter, from making a choice of  which store(s) they want to shop at or to 
> maximize their purchasing  power.
>
>  I do not claim to be an expert. But I do know two  things having worked 
> with the poor, disabled, and elderly, and working  on my MS in Special 
> Education, one is that every financial trustee for  the poor I know in 
> Moscow uses Wal-mart and Winco as primary shopping.  I trust these 
> financial people that are placed as trustees know what  they are doing. 
> Second, that not everyone has the ability, apartment  space and equipment, 
> or time to cook meals from scratch.
>
>  I  am frankly just sick, no, more like outright disgusted with how you 
> must make a federal case out of every person and business in this 
> community that YOU disagree with and paint them as evil doers. That is 
> WRONG!
>
>  If you do not like a religion, do not practice it.  If you do not like a 
> business, do not shop there. If you do not like a  practice, do not 
> practice it. But your are so wrong in your attempts to  try and sue and 
> attack everyone in this community and stop them from  doing what they want 
> to do because it does not  fit YOUR   beliefs or ideology.
>
>  So I do not ASSUME you are out for the  worst Saundra, I KNOW you are out 
> for the worst, because that is all  you do is try to take people down and 
> keep them from worshiping,  shopping and doing what and when they want to 
> if you do not AGREE with  it.
>
>  If you do not like Wal-mart, do not shop there. But do  not try to stop 
> me and others, or tell us we cannot. I do not tell you  where you have to 
> shop, what to drink, or what or how to worship. Get  out of people's 
> personal lives Saundra.
>
>  Saundra, you have  ONLY been about dividing this community and trying to 
> force your will  on others. I think it is a waste of you time and talents.
>
>   -DJA
>
>   PS, I am looking for a grocery list, I am serious. Otherwise we know 
> you are all just talk. And if you make the list, I will seriously make 
> sure many poor families get it.
>
>
>
> Saundra Lund <sslund at adelphia.net> wrote:   Donovan, Donovan, Donovan, 
> there you go again assuming the worst.
>
> The reason I asked the question is because I really want to know the 
> answer,
> not be attacked for asking the question.
>
> Back when I worked for a non-profit dedicated to serve the needs to the
> economically disadvantaged (including the working poor), the elderly, and
> the disabled, we *did* offer such a class that also included the locations
> and hours of the area's food banks.  However, it was consistently
> under-utilized in spite of a good deal of effort trying to increase
> awareness of this resource.
>
> That was many years ago, and I don't know if that resource is still
> available there, let alone if any similar resources are available here in
> Latah County.  That's why I asked the question, and it might be something
> I'd volunteer to help with.
>
> It is offensive and absolutely incorrect for you to attribute to me
> insulting the intelligence of the economically disadvantaged.  Why is it
> you're so quick to assume such a dreadful thing???  Having had the honor
> (and, yes, I consider it an honor) of having spent a huge chunk of my
> professional life working with special populations, insulting intelligence
> is not something I'd ever do, and SHAME on YOU for implying otherwise.
>
> It is also incredibly offensive and insulting for you to think you have 
> any
> qualification whatsoever to preach to me about the plight of the
> economically disadvantaged.  In addition to my professional experience, I
> *was* one of the economically disadvantaged.  Until you've walked a mile 
> in
> my shoes as the single parent (of an infant) going to school full-time,
> working full-time between two jobs, paying for child care, *not* eligible
> for food stamps, and having to make the agonizing decision between buying
> the antibiotic or the humidifier for a baby diagnosed with pneumonia 
> because
> I couldn't afford both, not to mention the day-to-day struggles, you'd do
> best to hold your tongue.  Shame on you!
>
>
> Saundra Lund
> Moscow, ID
>
> The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do
> nothing.
> Edmund Burke
>
> ***** Original material contained herein is Copyright 2005, Saundra Lund.
> Do not copy, forward, excerpt, or reproduce outside the Vision 2020 forum
> without the express written permission of the author.*****
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Donovan Arnold [mailto:donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 2:28 PM
> To: Saundra Lund; 'keely emerinemix'; vision2020 at moscow.com; 'Julie 
> Crumley'
> Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Wal-Mart meeting
>
> Saundra,
>
> "Nonetheless, with all the talk about how "expensive" Safeway is, I'm
> wondering if smart shopping is a skill others never learned?"
>
> You are right. The reason that so many poor families cannot make it on 
> $200
> a month for grocery shopping at Safeway is because they are too stupid to
> know how to read advertisements or clip coupons.
>
>
> Perhaps you can donate your time and talented bargain shopping skills by
> teaching them how to make it comfortably on a $800 a month paycheck and 
> $200
> in food stamps, especially since rent is now at least $450 a month.
>
> Better yet, why don't you show us by making a list of what items a family 
> of
> four shopping at Safeway can eat on a $200 food budget. And let us not
> forget, that in a family of four, chances are that at least one will be on
> either a diabetic, low sodium, or low fat diet. Do not forget that you can
> only eat potatoes and smack romen for so many years.
>
> If you can do this, I suggest you drop it off at Inclusion North, the
> Catholic Church, Stepping Stones, the Nazarene Church, and Community 
> Action
> Center; a lot of people would benefit from it.
>
> Take Care,
>
> _DJA
>
>
>
> Saundra Lund  wrote:
>
>  I have to agree with Julie & Keely in that I'm very pleased with
> shopping at
>  Safeway, and at Rosauers, too, and I still miss Tidymans . While
>  there have been a few occasions at both Safeway & Rosauers when
> checkout
>  took longer than I'd have liked, it was the exception rather than
> the rule.
>  Back when I shopped at Wal-Mart, however, checkout always took
> ***way*** too
>  long.
>
>  With respect to prices, I also have to agree with Keely :-) And, I
> have to
>  add that my daughter & I managed to survive back in the days when I
> was poor
>  and there was no Wal-Mart.
>
>  But, perhaps that's because the shopping habits I learned growing up
> and
>  followed as a smart but very poor consumer. I shopped the ads, tried
> to
>  plan meals around what's on sale, compared prices, and stocked up on
> staples
>  when prices were good. This works particularly well in Moscow since
> the
>  stores (with the exception of the Palouse Mall) are relatively close
> since
>  Moscow is relatively small. Even when I was *really* financially
> strapped,
>  I was able to eat pretty well, and now that I don't *have* to count
> every
>  penny (literally), old habits die hard & still work well :-)
>
>  Certainly transportation factors in & I realize I was fortunate that
> I had
>  good friends I could catch rides with when I had no transportation.
>
>  Nonetheless, with all the talk about how "expensive" Safeway is, I'm
>  wondering if smart shopping is a skill others never learned?
>
>
>  Saundra Lund
>  Moscow, ID
>
>  The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people
> to do
>  nothing.
>  Edmund Burke
>
>  ***** Original material contained herein is Copyright 2005, Saundra
> Lund.
>  Do not copy, forward, excerpt, or reproduce outside the Vision 2020
> forum
>  without the express written permission of the author.*****
>
>
>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com
> [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]
>  On Behalf Of keely emerinemix
>  Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 12:16 PM
>  To: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com; thansen at moscow.com;
> vision2020 at moscow.com
>  Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Wal-Mart meeting
>
>  I think this is unfair. Safeway's prices are usually pretty good,
> just as
>  Rosauer's are, and sometimes they're both even better than Winco.
> Sometimes
>  not. Contrary to what Courtney says, those of us who are opposed to
> a
>  WalMart Supercenter aren't trying to reduce your shopping choices --
> there
>  is a WalMart here already, and you can buy your pop and buns
> wherever you
>  want. The WalMart battle is about something else entirely, and
> unfairly
>  maligning grocery stores is a poor way to make the pro-WalMart point
> you
>  want to.
>
>  I live right by Safeway, and so I shop there most often. For all
> it's
>  worth, I think the service there is great, especially in pharmacy,
> deli and
>  produce. If you want to shop at WalMart -- the one we have right
> here -- go
>  ahead. But please don't plan your monthly budget around the
> beneficient
>  presence in your life that is WalMart, because there's very little
> evidence
>  that WalMart is interested in yours or anyone else's wellbeing.
>
>  keely
>
>
>
>
>  From: Donovan Arnold
>  To: Tom Hansen , vision2020 at moscow.com
>  Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Wal-Mart meeting
>  Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 22:20:04 -0800 (PST)
>
>  "And just what is Safeway?"
>
>  Safeway is a giant convenience store that poor people cannot afford.
>
>  Many of their customers only go there to save time from running
> across
>  town. Compare, Safeway- $4.50 for a lb of meat, and $5.50 for a 12
> pack of
>  soda. $2 for a bag of hamburger buns. Compare to Wal-Mart or Win-Co,
> $5 for
>  a 20 pack of soda, 68 cents for a bag of hamburger buns, and $2.25
> for lb a
>  meat. Feeding a family on $200 a month, what would you do? Wal-Mart,
>  Win-Co, and Safeway get almost all of their food goods from US and
> Canadian
>  farmers. I go to Safeway because it is close to my apartment. There
> prices
>  are through the roof, and their lines are long and slow. Not to
> mention I
>  frequently catch them ringing my food up for a higher price then
> they
>  advertised it to be, I caught them three times in one month
> overcharging
>  me, then you have to argue with over it, and half the time the price
>  difference is not worth the arguing. I will say though that Eric,
> the
>  general manager, is nice guy.
>  Wal-Mart coming in on the east side will save me no less than $75 a
>  month, and for a college student, that is a great deal of money.
>
>  -DJA
>
>
>
>  Tom Hansen wrote:
>  st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) } Arnold stated:
>
>  "So my guess is that it [addition of a Wal-Mart superstore] would
> have
>  the same impact as it is having now with one exception;
>
>  The only thing new is a grocery store on the east side of town."
>
>  And just what is Safeway?
>
>  Tom Hansen
>  Moscow, Idaho
>
>  "I think one of the best ways to support education is to make
>  successful private schools like Logos prosper through tax
> exemption."
>
>  - Donovan Arnold (July 11, 2005)
>
>
>
>
>
>
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