[Vision2020] Wal-Mart meeting
g. crabtree
jampot at adelphia.net
Wed Dec 21 06:28:03 PST 2005
Ms. Mix, This, I am sure, is where the real debate will be. I for one, do
not grasp your arguements, mainly because they are far too tenious to get a
grip on. As far as where Donovan shops, I am certain he can work that out
all by himself.
GC
----- Original Message -----
From: "keely emerinemix" <kjajmix1 at msn.com>
To: <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>; <sslund at adelphia.net>;
<vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 9:30 PM
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Wal-Mart meeting
> True -- Saundra Lund is my friend, and I will defend her.
>
> True -- Even if I never met Saundra Lund, or met her and didn't like her,
> I would defend her right to speak and would thank her for the many times
> she's done so.
>
> True -- I am not willing to automatically afford Donovan Arnold the moral
> high ground in any argument.
>
> Also true, but overlooked by our vehement WalMart defender, is that
> WalMart is ALREADY IN MOSCOW. No one would keep you from shopping there,
> Donovan, and, in fact, I would drive you there myself if you felt you had
> to go. But many of us object to an expanded, new, Superstore. Surely you
> see the difference. If not, please study up. And until you have a better
> grasp of the arguments, please try to be kind. It's cheap, filling, and
> easy to do from home.
>
> keely
>
>
> From: Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>
> To: Saundra Lund <sslund at adelphia.net>, vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Wal-Mart meeting
> Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 21:13:38 -0800 (PST)
>
> Saundra,
>
> I assume nothing. That is just all that you have offered the community.
> I need not look far to see how far out you have gone in your irrational
> thinking with attempts to stop religions from practicing communion with
> sacramental wine. Not even prohibition forbid that.
>
> I do not care if you were once pregnant, single, with 18 children,
> working five jobs, and living in a shoe box with no help or even a word
> of peace from even God almighty. It does not give you the right to take
> away the right of people living on limited incomes, or anyone for that
> matter, from making a choice of which store(s) they want to shop at or to
> maximize their purchasing power.
>
> I do not claim to be an expert. But I do know two things having worked
> with the poor, disabled, and elderly, and working on my MS in Special
> Education, one is that every financial trustee for the poor I know in
> Moscow uses Wal-mart and Winco as primary shopping. I trust these
> financial people that are placed as trustees know what they are doing.
> Second, that not everyone has the ability, apartment space and equipment,
> or time to cook meals from scratch.
>
> I am frankly just sick, no, more like outright disgusted with how you
> must make a federal case out of every person and business in this
> community that YOU disagree with and paint them as evil doers. That is
> WRONG!
>
> If you do not like a religion, do not practice it. If you do not like a
> business, do not shop there. If you do not like a practice, do not
> practice it. But your are so wrong in your attempts to try and sue and
> attack everyone in this community and stop them from doing what they want
> to do because it does not fit YOUR beliefs or ideology.
>
> So I do not ASSUME you are out for the worst Saundra, I KNOW you are out
> for the worst, because that is all you do is try to take people down and
> keep them from worshiping, shopping and doing what and when they want to
> if you do not AGREE with it.
>
> If you do not like Wal-mart, do not shop there. But do not try to stop
> me and others, or tell us we cannot. I do not tell you where you have to
> shop, what to drink, or what or how to worship. Get out of people's
> personal lives Saundra.
>
> Saundra, you have ONLY been about dividing this community and trying to
> force your will on others. I think it is a waste of you time and talents.
>
> -DJA
>
> PS, I am looking for a grocery list, I am serious. Otherwise we know
> you are all just talk. And if you make the list, I will seriously make
> sure many poor families get it.
>
>
>
> Saundra Lund <sslund at adelphia.net> wrote: Donovan, Donovan, Donovan,
> there you go again assuming the worst.
>
> The reason I asked the question is because I really want to know the
> answer,
> not be attacked for asking the question.
>
> Back when I worked for a non-profit dedicated to serve the needs to the
> economically disadvantaged (including the working poor), the elderly, and
> the disabled, we *did* offer such a class that also included the locations
> and hours of the area's food banks. However, it was consistently
> under-utilized in spite of a good deal of effort trying to increase
> awareness of this resource.
>
> That was many years ago, and I don't know if that resource is still
> available there, let alone if any similar resources are available here in
> Latah County. That's why I asked the question, and it might be something
> I'd volunteer to help with.
>
> It is offensive and absolutely incorrect for you to attribute to me
> insulting the intelligence of the economically disadvantaged. Why is it
> you're so quick to assume such a dreadful thing??? Having had the honor
> (and, yes, I consider it an honor) of having spent a huge chunk of my
> professional life working with special populations, insulting intelligence
> is not something I'd ever do, and SHAME on YOU for implying otherwise.
>
> It is also incredibly offensive and insulting for you to think you have
> any
> qualification whatsoever to preach to me about the plight of the
> economically disadvantaged. In addition to my professional experience, I
> *was* one of the economically disadvantaged. Until you've walked a mile
> in
> my shoes as the single parent (of an infant) going to school full-time,
> working full-time between two jobs, paying for child care, *not* eligible
> for food stamps, and having to make the agonizing decision between buying
> the antibiotic or the humidifier for a baby diagnosed with pneumonia
> because
> I couldn't afford both, not to mention the day-to-day struggles, you'd do
> best to hold your tongue. Shame on you!
>
>
> Saundra Lund
> Moscow, ID
>
> The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do
> nothing.
> Edmund Burke
>
> ***** Original material contained herein is Copyright 2005, Saundra Lund.
> Do not copy, forward, excerpt, or reproduce outside the Vision 2020 forum
> without the express written permission of the author.*****
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Donovan Arnold [mailto:donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 2:28 PM
> To: Saundra Lund; 'keely emerinemix'; vision2020 at moscow.com; 'Julie
> Crumley'
> Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Wal-Mart meeting
>
> Saundra,
>
> "Nonetheless, with all the talk about how "expensive" Safeway is, I'm
> wondering if smart shopping is a skill others never learned?"
>
> You are right. The reason that so many poor families cannot make it on
> $200
> a month for grocery shopping at Safeway is because they are too stupid to
> know how to read advertisements or clip coupons.
>
>
> Perhaps you can donate your time and talented bargain shopping skills by
> teaching them how to make it comfortably on a $800 a month paycheck and
> $200
> in food stamps, especially since rent is now at least $450 a month.
>
> Better yet, why don't you show us by making a list of what items a family
> of
> four shopping at Safeway can eat on a $200 food budget. And let us not
> forget, that in a family of four, chances are that at least one will be on
> either a diabetic, low sodium, or low fat diet. Do not forget that you can
> only eat potatoes and smack romen for so many years.
>
> If you can do this, I suggest you drop it off at Inclusion North, the
> Catholic Church, Stepping Stones, the Nazarene Church, and Community
> Action
> Center; a lot of people would benefit from it.
>
> Take Care,
>
> _DJA
>
>
>
> Saundra Lund wrote:
>
> I have to agree with Julie & Keely in that I'm very pleased with
> shopping at
> Safeway, and at Rosauers, too, and I still miss Tidymans . While
> there have been a few occasions at both Safeway & Rosauers when
> checkout
> took longer than I'd have liked, it was the exception rather than
> the rule.
> Back when I shopped at Wal-Mart, however, checkout always took
> ***way*** too
> long.
>
> With respect to prices, I also have to agree with Keely :-) And, I
> have to
> add that my daughter & I managed to survive back in the days when I
> was poor
> and there was no Wal-Mart.
>
> But, perhaps that's because the shopping habits I learned growing up
> and
> followed as a smart but very poor consumer. I shopped the ads, tried
> to
> plan meals around what's on sale, compared prices, and stocked up on
> staples
> when prices were good. This works particularly well in Moscow since
> the
> stores (with the exception of the Palouse Mall) are relatively close
> since
> Moscow is relatively small. Even when I was *really* financially
> strapped,
> I was able to eat pretty well, and now that I don't *have* to count
> every
> penny (literally), old habits die hard & still work well :-)
>
> Certainly transportation factors in & I realize I was fortunate that
> I had
> good friends I could catch rides with when I had no transportation.
>
> Nonetheless, with all the talk about how "expensive" Safeway is, I'm
> wondering if smart shopping is a skill others never learned?
>
>
> Saundra Lund
> Moscow, ID
>
> The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people
> to do
> nothing.
> Edmund Burke
>
> ***** Original material contained herein is Copyright 2005, Saundra
> Lund.
> Do not copy, forward, excerpt, or reproduce outside the Vision 2020
> forum
> without the express written permission of the author.*****
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com
> [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]
> On Behalf Of keely emerinemix
> Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 12:16 PM
> To: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com; thansen at moscow.com;
> vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Wal-Mart meeting
>
> I think this is unfair. Safeway's prices are usually pretty good,
> just as
> Rosauer's are, and sometimes they're both even better than Winco.
> Sometimes
> not. Contrary to what Courtney says, those of us who are opposed to
> a
> WalMart Supercenter aren't trying to reduce your shopping choices --
> there
> is a WalMart here already, and you can buy your pop and buns
> wherever you
> want. The WalMart battle is about something else entirely, and
> unfairly
> maligning grocery stores is a poor way to make the pro-WalMart point
> you
> want to.
>
> I live right by Safeway, and so I shop there most often. For all
> it's
> worth, I think the service there is great, especially in pharmacy,
> deli and
> produce. If you want to shop at WalMart -- the one we have right
> here -- go
> ahead. But please don't plan your monthly budget around the
> beneficient
> presence in your life that is WalMart, because there's very little
> evidence
> that WalMart is interested in yours or anyone else's wellbeing.
>
> keely
>
>
>
>
> From: Donovan Arnold
> To: Tom Hansen , vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Wal-Mart meeting
> Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 22:20:04 -0800 (PST)
>
> "And just what is Safeway?"
>
> Safeway is a giant convenience store that poor people cannot afford.
>
> Many of their customers only go there to save time from running
> across
> town. Compare, Safeway- $4.50 for a lb of meat, and $5.50 for a 12
> pack of
> soda. $2 for a bag of hamburger buns. Compare to Wal-Mart or Win-Co,
> $5 for
> a 20 pack of soda, 68 cents for a bag of hamburger buns, and $2.25
> for lb a
> meat. Feeding a family on $200 a month, what would you do? Wal-Mart,
> Win-Co, and Safeway get almost all of their food goods from US and
> Canadian
> farmers. I go to Safeway because it is close to my apartment. There
> prices
> are through the roof, and their lines are long and slow. Not to
> mention I
> frequently catch them ringing my food up for a higher price then
> they
> advertised it to be, I caught them three times in one month
> overcharging
> me, then you have to argue with over it, and half the time the price
> difference is not worth the arguing. I will say though that Eric,
> the
> general manager, is nice guy.
> Wal-Mart coming in on the east side will save me no less than $75 a
> month, and for a college student, that is a great deal of money.
>
> -DJA
>
>
>
> Tom Hansen wrote:
> st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) } Arnold stated:
>
> "So my guess is that it [addition of a Wal-Mart superstore] would
> have
> the same impact as it is having now with one exception;
>
> The only thing new is a grocery store on the east side of town."
>
> And just what is Safeway?
>
> Tom Hansen
> Moscow, Idaho
>
> "I think one of the best ways to support education is to make
> successful private schools like Logos prosper through tax
> exemption."
>
> - Donovan Arnold (July 11, 2005)
>
>
>
>
>
>
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