[Vision2020] Wal-Mart meeting

g. crabtree jampot at adelphia.net
Wed Dec 21 07:13:55 PST 2005


Ms. Mix, This, I am sure, is where the real debate will be. I for one, do
not grasp your arguments, mainly because they are far too tenuous to get a
grip on. As far as where Donovan shops, I am certain he can work that out
all by himself.

GC  (Sorry about the unsightly spelling errors in post #1)


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "g. crabtree" <jampot at adelphia.net>
To: "keely emerinemix" <kjajmix1 at msn.com>; <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>; 
<sslund at adelphia.net>; <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 6:28 AM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Wal-Mart meeting


> Ms. Mix, This, I am sure, is where the real debate will be. I for one, do 
> not grasp your arguements, mainly because they are far too tenious to get 
> a grip on. As far as where Donovan shops, I am certain he can work that 
> out all by himself.
>
> GC
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "keely emerinemix" <kjajmix1 at msn.com>
> To: <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>; <sslund at adelphia.net>; 
> <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 9:30 PM
> Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Wal-Mart meeting
>
>
>> True -- Saundra Lund is my friend, and I will defend her.
>>
>> True -- Even if I never met Saundra Lund, or met her and didn't like her, 
>> I would defend her right to speak and would thank her for the many times 
>> she's done so.
>>
>> True -- I am not willing to automatically afford Donovan Arnold the moral 
>> high ground in any argument.
>>
>> Also true, but overlooked by our vehement WalMart defender, is that 
>> WalMart is ALREADY IN MOSCOW.  No one would keep you from shopping there, 
>> Donovan, and, in fact, I would drive you there myself if you felt you had 
>> to go.  But many of us object to an expanded, new, Superstore.  Surely 
>> you see the difference.  If not, please study up.  And until you have a 
>> better grasp of the arguments, please try to be kind.  It's cheap, 
>> filling, and easy to do from home.
>>
>> keely
>>
>>
>> From: Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>
>> To: Saundra Lund <sslund at adelphia.net>, vision2020 at moscow.com
>> Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Wal-Mart meeting
>> Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 21:13:38 -0800 (PST)
>>
>> Saundra,
>>
>>  I assume nothing. That is just  all that you have offered the community. 
>> I need not look far to see how  far out you have gone in your irrational 
>> thinking with attempts to stop  religions from practicing communion with 
>> sacramental wine. Not even  prohibition forbid that.
>>
>>  I do not care if you were once  pregnant, single, with 18 children, 
>> working five jobs, and living in a  shoe box with no help or even a word 
>> of peace from even God almighty.  It does not give you the right to take 
>> away the right of people living  on limited incomes, or anyone for that 
>> matter, from making a choice of  which store(s) they want to shop at or 
>> to maximize their purchasing  power.
>>
>>  I do not claim to be an expert. But I do know two  things having worked 
>> with the poor, disabled, and elderly, and working  on my MS in Special 
>> Education, one is that every financial trustee for  the poor I know in 
>> Moscow uses Wal-mart and Winco as primary shopping.  I trust these 
>> financial people that are placed as trustees know what  they are doing. 
>> Second, that not everyone has the ability, apartment  space and 
>> equipment, or time to cook meals from scratch.
>>
>>  I  am frankly just sick, no, more like outright disgusted with how you 
>> must make a federal case out of every person and business in this 
>> community that YOU disagree with and paint them as evil doers. That is 
>> WRONG!
>>
>>  If you do not like a religion, do not practice it.  If you do not like a 
>> business, do not shop there. If you do not like a  practice, do not 
>> practice it. But your are so wrong in your attempts to  try and sue and 
>> attack everyone in this community and stop them from  doing what they 
>> want to do because it does not  fit YOUR   beliefs or ideology.
>>
>>  So I do not ASSUME you are out for the  worst Saundra, I KNOW you are 
>> out for the worst, because that is all  you do is try to take people down 
>> and keep them from worshiping,  shopping and doing what and when they 
>> want to if you do not AGREE with  it.
>>
>>  If you do not like Wal-mart, do not shop there. But do  not try to stop 
>> me and others, or tell us we cannot. I do not tell you  where you have to 
>> shop, what to drink, or what or how to worship. Get  out of people's 
>> personal lives Saundra.
>>
>>  Saundra, you have  ONLY been about dividing this community and trying to 
>> force your will  on others. I think it is a waste of you time and 
>> talents.
>>
>>   -DJA
>>
>>   PS, I am looking for a grocery list, I am serious. Otherwise we know 
>> you are all just talk. And if you make the list, I will seriously make 
>> sure many poor families get it.
>>
>>
>>
>> Saundra Lund <sslund at adelphia.net> wrote:   Donovan, Donovan, Donovan, 
>> there you go again assuming the worst.
>>
>> The reason I asked the question is because I really want to know the 
>> answer,
>> not be attacked for asking the question.
>>
>> Back when I worked for a non-profit dedicated to serve the needs to the
>> economically disadvantaged (including the working poor), the elderly, and
>> the disabled, we *did* offer such a class that also included the 
>> locations
>> and hours of the area's food banks.  However, it was consistently
>> under-utilized in spite of a good deal of effort trying to increase
>> awareness of this resource.
>>
>> That was many years ago, and I don't know if that resource is still
>> available there, let alone if any similar resources are available here in
>> Latah County.  That's why I asked the question, and it might be something
>> I'd volunteer to help with.
>>
>> It is offensive and absolutely incorrect for you to attribute to me
>> insulting the intelligence of the economically disadvantaged.  Why is it
>> you're so quick to assume such a dreadful thing???  Having had the honor
>> (and, yes, I consider it an honor) of having spent a huge chunk of my
>> professional life working with special populations, insulting 
>> intelligence
>> is not something I'd ever do, and SHAME on YOU for implying otherwise.
>>
>> It is also incredibly offensive and insulting for you to think you have 
>> any
>> qualification whatsoever to preach to me about the plight of the
>> economically disadvantaged.  In addition to my professional experience, I
>> *was* one of the economically disadvantaged.  Until you've walked a mile 
>> in
>> my shoes as the single parent (of an infant) going to school full-time,
>> working full-time between two jobs, paying for child care, *not* eligible
>> for food stamps, and having to make the agonizing decision between buying
>> the antibiotic or the humidifier for a baby diagnosed with pneumonia 
>> because
>> I couldn't afford both, not to mention the day-to-day struggles, you'd do
>> best to hold your tongue.  Shame on you!
>>
>>
>> Saundra Lund
>> Moscow, ID
>>
>> The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do
>> nothing.
>> Edmund Burke
>>
>> ***** Original material contained herein is Copyright 2005, Saundra Lund.
>> Do not copy, forward, excerpt, or reproduce outside the Vision 2020 forum
>> without the express written permission of the author.*****
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Donovan Arnold [mailto:donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com]
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 2:28 PM
>> To: Saundra Lund; 'keely emerinemix'; vision2020 at moscow.com; 'Julie 
>> Crumley'
>> Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Wal-Mart meeting
>>
>> Saundra,
>>
>> "Nonetheless, with all the talk about how "expensive" Safeway is, I'm
>> wondering if smart shopping is a skill others never learned?"
>>
>> You are right. The reason that so many poor families cannot make it on 
>> $200
>> a month for grocery shopping at Safeway is because they are too stupid to
>> know how to read advertisements or clip coupons.
>>
>>
>> Perhaps you can donate your time and talented bargain shopping skills by
>> teaching them how to make it comfortably on a $800 a month paycheck and 
>> $200
>> in food stamps, especially since rent is now at least $450 a month.
>>
>> Better yet, why don't you show us by making a list of what items a family 
>> of
>> four shopping at Safeway can eat on a $200 food budget. And let us not
>> forget, that in a family of four, chances are that at least one will be 
>> on
>> either a diabetic, low sodium, or low fat diet. Do not forget that you 
>> can
>> only eat potatoes and smack romen for so many years.
>>
>> If you can do this, I suggest you drop it off at Inclusion North, the
>> Catholic Church, Stepping Stones, the Nazarene Church, and Community 
>> Action
>> Center; a lot of people would benefit from it.
>>
>> Take Care,
>>
>> _DJA
>>
>>
>>
>> Saundra Lund  wrote:
>>
>>  I have to agree with Julie & Keely in that I'm very pleased with
>> shopping at
>>  Safeway, and at Rosauers, too, and I still miss Tidymans . While
>>  there have been a few occasions at both Safeway & Rosauers when
>> checkout
>>  took longer than I'd have liked, it was the exception rather than
>> the rule.
>>  Back when I shopped at Wal-Mart, however, checkout always took
>> ***way*** too
>>  long.
>>
>>  With respect to prices, I also have to agree with Keely :-) And, I
>> have to
>>  add that my daughter & I managed to survive back in the days when I
>> was poor
>>  and there was no Wal-Mart.
>>
>>  But, perhaps that's because the shopping habits I learned growing up
>> and
>>  followed as a smart but very poor consumer. I shopped the ads, tried
>> to
>>  plan meals around what's on sale, compared prices, and stocked up on
>> staples
>>  when prices were good. This works particularly well in Moscow since
>> the
>>  stores (with the exception of the Palouse Mall) are relatively close
>> since
>>  Moscow is relatively small. Even when I was *really* financially
>> strapped,
>>  I was able to eat pretty well, and now that I don't *have* to count
>> every
>>  penny (literally), old habits die hard & still work well :-)
>>
>>  Certainly transportation factors in & I realize I was fortunate that
>> I had
>>  good friends I could catch rides with when I had no transportation.
>>
>>  Nonetheless, with all the talk about how "expensive" Safeway is, I'm
>>  wondering if smart shopping is a skill others never learned?
>>
>>
>>  Saundra Lund
>>  Moscow, ID
>>
>>  The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people
>> to do
>>  nothing.
>>  Edmund Burke
>>
>>  ***** Original material contained herein is Copyright 2005, Saundra
>> Lund.
>>  Do not copy, forward, excerpt, or reproduce outside the Vision 2020
>> forum
>>  without the express written permission of the author.*****
>>
>>
>>  -----Original Message-----
>>  From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com
>> [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]
>>  On Behalf Of keely emerinemix
>>  Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 12:16 PM
>>  To: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com; thansen at moscow.com;
>> vision2020 at moscow.com
>>  Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Wal-Mart meeting
>>
>>  I think this is unfair. Safeway's prices are usually pretty good,
>> just as
>>  Rosauer's are, and sometimes they're both even better than Winco.
>> Sometimes
>>  not. Contrary to what Courtney says, those of us who are opposed to
>> a
>>  WalMart Supercenter aren't trying to reduce your shopping choices --
>> there
>>  is a WalMart here already, and you can buy your pop and buns
>> wherever you
>>  want. The WalMart battle is about something else entirely, and
>> unfairly
>>  maligning grocery stores is a poor way to make the pro-WalMart point
>> you
>>  want to.
>>
>>  I live right by Safeway, and so I shop there most often. For all
>> it's
>>  worth, I think the service there is great, especially in pharmacy,
>> deli and
>>  produce. If you want to shop at WalMart -- the one we have right
>> here -- go
>>  ahead. But please don't plan your monthly budget around the
>> beneficient
>>  presence in your life that is WalMart, because there's very little
>> evidence
>>  that WalMart is interested in yours or anyone else's wellbeing.
>>
>>  keely
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  From: Donovan Arnold
>>  To: Tom Hansen , vision2020 at moscow.com
>>  Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Wal-Mart meeting
>>  Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 22:20:04 -0800 (PST)
>>
>>  "And just what is Safeway?"
>>
>>  Safeway is a giant convenience store that poor people cannot afford.
>>
>>  Many of their customers only go there to save time from running
>> across
>>  town. Compare, Safeway- $4.50 for a lb of meat, and $5.50 for a 12
>> pack of
>>  soda. $2 for a bag of hamburger buns. Compare to Wal-Mart or Win-Co,
>> $5 for
>>  a 20 pack of soda, 68 cents for a bag of hamburger buns, and $2.25
>> for lb a
>>  meat. Feeding a family on $200 a month, what would you do? Wal-Mart,
>>  Win-Co, and Safeway get almost all of their food goods from US and
>> Canadian
>>  farmers. I go to Safeway because it is close to my apartment. There
>> prices
>>  are through the roof, and their lines are long and slow. Not to
>> mention I
>>  frequently catch them ringing my food up for a higher price then
>> they
>>  advertised it to be, I caught them three times in one month
>> overcharging
>>  me, then you have to argue with over it, and half the time the price
>>  difference is not worth the arguing. I will say though that Eric,
>> the
>>  general manager, is nice guy.
>>  Wal-Mart coming in on the east side will save me no less than $75 a
>>  month, and for a college student, that is a great deal of money.
>>
>>  -DJA
>>
>>
>>
>>  Tom Hansen wrote:
>>  st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) } Arnold stated:
>>
>>  "So my guess is that it [addition of a Wal-Mart superstore] would
>> have
>>  the same impact as it is having now with one exception;
>>
>>  The only thing new is a grocery store on the east side of town."
>>
>>  And just what is Safeway?
>>
>>  Tom Hansen
>>  Moscow, Idaho
>>
>>  "I think one of the best ways to support education is to make
>>  successful private schools like Logos prosper through tax
>> exemption."
>>
>>  - Donovan Arnold (July 11, 2005)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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