[Vision2020] Mr. Fox's Talk'in (sic) down (sic) to God

[Donovan Arnold]

Mr. Fox writes:

“Let's see:
 
Do you not see logical and epistemological problems
inherent in claiming:
 
[1]    Some alleged god is omnipotent, omniscient, and
ominbenevolent, and
 
[2]    That the bible, the alleged "word" of this
alleged god, is so unclear, confusing, and
inconsistent that there are millions of different
interpretations of it, each brutally different (as are
some of the actions consequent) and inconsistent with
each other?” ---Wayne Fox

(1)	NO Wayne, it is not logical to believe in a God.
That is why it is called FAITH. 
(2)	There is a different interpretation of the Bible
because everyone interprets words differently. As was
illustrated in your Communication 101 course, if I say
dog, cat, bird, mammal, car, etc. everyone gets a
different image in their head of what a dog, cat,
bird, etc. is.  So it is not possible for a book to be
written in such a fashion so that everyone over 4000 +
years will view it the same way.  And it may have also
been the intention of the author not to. 

 
 
“Perhaps you have been so busy that you have failed to
notice that there are many, many persons who are
sincere Christians, including many scholars who have
spent their lives studying the bible and studying the
works of others in the past who have spent their lives
studying the bible, cannot even agree on some very
basic elements of the so-called Christian faith.
 
For example: Where and when Jesus was born? 

Which words in the bible were actually spoken by Jesus
and which were made up by persons with their own
agendas/interpretations?”
 

Sorry Wayne, but those and the other questions you
asked are not the core principles of the Christian
faith. Regardless of if Jesus was born on September,
2,5 BC or December 25, 01 AD his teachings were
equally true.

None of the words you read in the Bible were actually
spoken by Jesus because he did not speak English, or
probably any other language the Bible is written in
today. And even if it was, the words would have
changed meaning to such a degree as to be
indistinguishable to the original reader of the
language. Just look at the changes in the US English
and England's English in a couple hundred years.

All these other questions are questions you have to
figure out on your own through your personal
relationship with God. I do not think that anyone can
make blanket statements that abortion is ALWAYS wrong
or ALWAYS right. I do not think that people can say
that homosexual relationships are ALWAYS right or
ALWAYS wrong. The same goes for all your other
questions. The way to know the answer for each
instance is to build a relationship with God and ask
Him what to do in each situation you encounter. 

I TRY to use the basic teachings of the Bible, my
personal relationship with Christ, and the two
principles of “Do what I believe to be in obedience to
God” and ask if “It is the most loving thing I am
doing for my neighbor” in guiding my actions.
Although, I am human and always fall short of this, I
try to get better as I get older. Maybe when I am 1000
years old I will be 1/1000 the way there.  
 
 “Does god have a gender?”

Does it matter? 
 
“Is heaven a temporal/spatial realm?”

Again, does it matter? 
 
“If your alleged god is powerful, smart, and good,
couldn't she/it/he have written much clearer,
ultimately more persuasive instructions  to live
correctly and to attain eternal bliss so as to not
only avoid any confusion, even among the feeble
witted, but to avoid all the corruption, torture, war,
oppression, human and animal suffering, and
divisiveness which has occurred and continues to occur
in the name of this alleged god and its/hers/his
‘word’?”

Do you think Man would have avoided “all the
corruption, torture, war, oppression, human and animal
suffering, and divisiveness which has occurred and
continues to occur” no matter what was written in the
Bible, or for that matter anywhere else?” Do you not
think the commandment of “Love thy Neighbor” is CLEAR
enough not to do those things? 

It appears as though you are saying God should not
have given Mankind freewill to do wrong. Or, that a
loving God would only allow people to do things that
had no negative consequences toward anyone or
anything? I think God forcing us to love one another
diminishes the purpose of our existence by eliminating
freewill to love and do no ill deeds to others.
 
“Based on the mode of existence, there is no evidence
that there is any difference between making these
statements of some alleged god or making them of Porky
Pig or Count Dracula.  Their mode of existence appears
the same -- fantasy.”

There is a reason why almost every culture in the
world, regardless of time, location, isolation,
language, age, or technological advancement is aware
of a God. They are not all aware of the existence of
Porky the Pig, nor is everything Porky say true. 

Believing in God is based on faith. It is based on
personal experiences. It is not based on observable
empirical scientific data that can be repeated and
analyzed in a lab. But also keep in mind that science
does not dismiss the possibility of God either. 

To say there is no God because there is no evidence to
back the claim is just as illogical as to claim there
is a God because there is no evidence there is no God
either. That is why it is purely a matter of faith and
personal experiences. My personal experiences tell
there is God. I can only tell you that there is a God
based on what I have see and experienced. I cannot
prove it to you. 

What is illogical though is to slander God. There is
either a God, or there is not. If there is no God,
there would have been no harm in not slandering
something that does not exist. However, if it turns
out there is a God; well you might regret hurting the
very being that loves you the most.  

Donovan J Arnold






--- Art Deco <deco at moscow.com> wrote:

> Donovan writes:
> 
> {["Is his alleged god so disabled, inept, and
> illiterate that his alleged words needs 'sidebars'?"
> 
> 
> Wayne Fox]
>  
> No Wayne. He put the sidebars there because you are
> so inept and illiterate and could not figure out
> that He supports people coming together in prayer.
> 
> PS, I would not go around calling God disabled,
> inept, and illiterate.
> 
> Let's see:
> 
> Do you not see logical and epistemological problems
> inherent in claiming:
> 
> [1]    Some alleged god is omnipotent, omniscient,
> and ominbenevolent, and
> 
> [2]    That the bible, the alleged "word" of this
> alleged god, is so unclear, confusing, and
> inconsistent that there are millions of different
> interpretations of it, each brutally different (as
> are some of the actions consequent) and inconsistent
> with each other?
> 
> 
> Perhaps you have been so busy that you have failed
> to notice that there are many, many persons who are
> sincere Christians, including many scholars who have
> spent their lives studying the bible and studying
> the works of others in the past who have spent their
> lives studying the bible, cannot even agree on some
> very basic elements of the so-called Christian
> faith.
> 
> For example:
> 
> Where and when Jesus was born?
> 
> Which words in the bible were actually spoken by
> Jesus and which were made up by persons with their
> own agendas/interpretations?
> 
> If Jesus was the result of an "immaculate
> conception" (curious term, indicating disdain and
> disgust with the joy of the normal reproductive
> process) or was he the result of Joseph's (or
> someone else's) interdiction.  If the former, then
> Jesus could not be descended from David via Joseph's
> and other interveners' begetting as claimed.
> 
> Is capital punishment permissible?
> 
> Is abortion permissible?
> 
> Are monogamous homosexual relations permissible?
> 
> Is it permissible to lie in order to forward some
> alleged works on behalf of god?
> 
> Do you have to be a Christian or even believe in god
> to be eligible for eternal reward?
>   
> Are all non-Christians damned to eternal punishment?
> 
> Is slavery permissible?
> 
> Can women be religious/spiritual
> professionals/counselors?
> 
> Are blacks inferior/subservient to whites?
> 
> Is prayer to be private or public?
> 
> Do Christians have a duty to protect and conserve
> natural resources and wildlife?
> 
> Does the bread and wine of communion become the
> actual blood and flesh of Christ at the moment of
> ingestion?
> 
> Is the Pope infallible?
> 
> Does god have a gender?
> 
> Is heaven a temporal/spatial realm?
>   
> Etc.
> 
> Etc.
> 
> If your alleged god is powerful, smart, and good,
> couldn't she/it/he have written much clearer,
> ultimately more persuasive instructions  to live
> correctly and to attain eternal bliss so as to not
> only avoid any confusion, even among the feeble
> witted, but to avoid all the corruption, torture,
> war, oppression, human and animal suffering, and
> divisiveness which has occurred and continues to
> occur in the name of this alleged god and
> its/hers/his "word"?
> 
> 
> You write:
> 
> PS, I would not go around calling God disabled,
> inept, and illiterate.
> 
> Based on the mode of existence, there is no evidence
> that there is any difference between making these
> statements of some alleged god or making them of
> Porky Pig or Count Dracula.  Their mode of existence
> appears the same -- fantasy.
> 
> 
> Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)
> deco at moscow.com
>  >
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