[Vision2020] Public prayer on public money

[Donovan Arnold]

Wayne,

Gee, that means Christ sinned because he prayed in
public. So did his mother Mary and all of the
disciples.

It also means all the scholars and clerics that have
studied the Bible are wrong because they worship with
others too. 

Let us also not forget that your interpretation of the
Bible conflicts with more than a dozen other passages
of the Bible.

Forgive me, but I cannot except that Christ sinned and
all the clerics, scholars, and religious leaders from
all over the world were WRONG and Wayne Fox a
non-Christian who never studied the Bible is right
about what Christ meant about a particular passage.

Donovan J Arnold  

--- Art Deco <deco at moscow.com> wrote:

> Donovan writes:
> 
> 
> "If we are to take your literal interpretation of
> his words, churches would not have mass and worship,
> which is public prayer."
> 
> Gee, Donovan, maybe you are finally catching on.  
> 
> There have been and are many scholars who have
> argued that Jesus intended to make belief in God
> much, much more private than it was in his times. 
> He certainly appeared to be crusading not only for
> certain ethical beliefs but against the corruption
> and hypocrisy of the organized church of his times.
> 
> These scholars argue that Jesus believed that faith
> should be spread person to person and that
> organizing faith leads to corruption, hypocrisy, and
> divisiveness.  There is no doubt what-so-ever that
> the last phrase of the last sentence is empirically
> true.
> 
> Of course we do not know what Jesus actually said
> let alone why he said it.  The Jesus Seminar
> composed of many very prominent Christian scholars
> and theologians have concluded that Jesus did not
> say about 85% of the things attributed to him in the
> bible.
> 
> Public officials ought be making their decisions on
> the best available information not on untestable
> ignorance and superstition driven by fear, greed,
> and the egomaniacal, megalomaniacal need to control.
>  Instead of praying, they might spend that time
> educating themselves more completely about the
> matters they with.  If they or their constituents
> need to pray like a junkie needs a fix, they can at
> any time pray silently.  No one, not even you
> Donavan, can abridge their freedom to do so.
> 
> Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)
> deco at moscow.com
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Donovan Arnold"
> <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>
> To: "Chasuk" <chasuk at gmail.com>
> Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>; "Sunil Ramalingam"
> <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
> Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2005 11:17 PM
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Public prayer on public
> money
> 
> 
> > Chas,
> > 
> > I do not think that is what Christ was getting at.
> > Christ prayed in public and with others all the
> time,
> > and others prayed with him in public.
> > 
> > If you read the previous passage you see that
> Christ
> > in this passage was talking about people that
> claimed
> > to be Holy and did prayer and gave only in the
> public
> > eye to gain praise from other men, not from God.
> He is
> > saying pray for God's praise, and give for God's
> > praise, do not pray and give for man's praise.
> > 
> > If we are to take your literal interpretation of
> his
> > words, churches would not have mass and worship,
> which
> > is public prayer. Not to mention most people at
> that
> > time did not have doors on their rooms, just the
> door
> > to the outside of the house.
> > 
> > But more importantly, this is not about one
> religion,
> > this is about allowing people to preform a task
> that
> > is important to their spiritual and emotional well
> > being that does no harm to anyone else. 
> > 
> > Donovan J Arnold
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --- Chasuk <chasuk at gmail.com> wrote:
> > 
> >> First, a preface: I am not a Christian.  I might
> >> truthfully be
> >> considered a recovering ex-Christian.  When I was
> a
> >> Christian, I
> >> prayed frequently, and I found it beneficial. 
> >> However, I always
> >> minded Jesus's own words regarding prayer:
> >> 
> >> "And when you pray, you must not be like the
> >> hypocrites; for they love
> >> to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the
> >> street corners, that
> >> they may be seen by men. Truly, I say to you,
> they
> >> have received their
> >> reward. But when you pray, go into your room and
> >> shut the door and
> >> pray to your Father who is in secret; and your
> >> Father who sees in
> >> secret will reward you." (Matthew 6:5-6 RSV)
> >> 
> >> I haven't had time to read every message in this
> >> thread, so I
> >> apologize if this quote is yet another
> reiteration. 
> >> Still, I would
> >> hope that the founder of Christianity's word are
> >> relevant -- and we
> >> are talking about Christian prayer, realistically
> --
> >> so what else
> >> needs to be said?
> >> 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >
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> >>
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