[Vision2020] Separation Of Church & State

[Joan Opyr]

On Aug 1, 2005, at 12:19 PM, Kai Eiselein wrote:

> How about we ban the yearly pow wow at the dome? After all that is
> religious, as well, isn't it?
> Polygamy? I don't care, frankly. I DO however have a problem with 13 
> year
> females getting married against their will. Practices which have been 
> well
> documented over the past few years. And which have been done by ALL of 
> the
> groups you mentioned, Joan.
> Should we allow the practice of mutilating female genetalia, since it 
> has a
> religious facet? It's a "cultural norm". Whether religous or secular, 
> every
> society has its "cultural norm", in which people function. Western 
> norms do
> not allow polygamy, human sacrifice, yadayadyada. And even religions 
> must
> stay within those boundries. Do Jews regulary sacrifice animals 
> anymore? If
> not, why not? What changed?

You're making my point for me here, Kai.  I am NOT against renting the 
Kibbie Dome to Doug Wilson and Christ Church.  I am simply pointing out 
that there is a conflict between Doug's stated religious practice 
(serving communion wine to minors) and state law.  His plans for 
"Worship in the Dome" put the University in an awkward position, to say 
the least, and the frenetic blogging that's been taking place on 
http://dougwils.com and http://right-mind.us suggests that this 
awkwardness (or, rather, provocation) was deliberate.

Now, it just so happens that I know a little something about student 
Pow Wows held at the Kibbie; I've attended many.  Now here's a question 
for you, Nelly Boots -- did you know that the UI Native American 
student group was charged $10,000 to use the Kibbie for its one night 
Pow Wow last year, while Doug and Christ Church are only being charged 
$750 per day?  What's going on here, do you suppose?  Some of that 
religious discrimination you claim to be so worried about?

I, too, have a problem with children being married, whether it's 
against their will down in Southern Idaho, or by their own free choice 
to Jerry Lee Lewis.  I have a problem with female genital mutilation.  
I have a problem with many, many religious practices: two young men, 
ages 15 and 16, were stoned to death in Iran recently for being gay.  
Homosexuality is a violation of Sharia, a fundamentalist interpretation 
of Islamic law.  You can bet your sweet bippie that I have a problem 
with that.

What I am asking you is to answer, Kai, are the very questions you pose 
above.  What religious practices should be tolerated on secular state 
property?  Get your thoughts in order before you respond because this 
is not an easy question.  Have a look at some of the case law regarding 
religious practices in prison.  Some years back, Orrin Hatch and other 
religious conservatives co-sponsored a freedom of religion law, 
granting prisoners the right to practice their faiths freely in our 
penitentiary system.  I think Hatch and company imagined that this 
would serve by and large to "bring people to Jesus."  It's done that, 
no doubt; it's also brought people to the Nation of Islam, to Judaism, 
to Native American traditional religions, and to a host of other 
religious practices that Orrin Hatch clearly never considered.  (Orrin 
Hatch thinks a lot like my Southern Baptist grandmother, who believes 
that allowing the return of prayer to public schools would only mean 
allowing Christian prayer.  Why?  Because that's the only kind of 
prayer she knows.  She's not picturing an Imam or a Shaman delivering 
the commencement prayer at my alma mater, William G. Enloe High School. 
  If that were to happen, she'd be out marching in the streets in 
protest faster than you could say Madelyn Murray O'Hare.)

Again, I do not oppose renting UI or any other state property to 
religious groups for religious worship.  I do think, however, that 
religious groups inevitably compromise their religious practice by 
moving from private to public property.  And when it comes to polygamy, 
or female genital mutilation, or smoking aboriginal hallucinogens, some 
religious practices are clearly abridged even on private property.

Joan Opyr/Auntie Establishment
www.auntie-establishment.com

PS: I'm a Reform Jew.  Burnt sacrifices no longer make a pleasing smell 
unto the Lord, and even if they did, I wouldn't expect Tim White or the 
UI Administration to allow me to set fire to a sheep in the Kibbie 
Dome.