[Vision2020] answers....answers.....answers

Wed Apr 20 22:54:38 PDT 2005

So Donovan have you talked to others who have hired architects? How many
calls to other architects have YOU talked to?? Your putting a lot of
pressure on people about something you have no experience with. Do some
research and let us know what you find.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Donovan Arnold" <donovanarnold at hotmail.com>
To: <dgray at uidaho.edu>; <cjs at turbonet.com>
Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 12:36 AM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] answers....answers.....answers

Debbie,

What Phil is getting at is that you should shop around and get different
quotes. Not just take it to one place and agree to whatever the one person
says. I took my car to get the window fixed. The first mechanic said it
would be $400. I left the dealership and took it to another mechanic. He
said it would be $80. Big difference. So I took it to a third, he said it
should be between $75 and $150. Had I listened to the first mechanic I would
have been ripped off.

Also, you should not have the same firm do the study as the one that does
the project. Why? Because if you say to an architectural firm, "Hey do a
study and see if we really need a new high school, if we do need a new high
school you get to build it." What do you think the results of the study are
going to be 99% of the time? Do you think the guy that said, no, you do not
need a new one would be working for the business long? Of course not. That
is why one or two do the study, and then you bid out the contract. That is
what the US military does and many private companies.

I am not saying Scott is not an honest guy. What I am saying is that the FPC
did not take the common sense approach to doing bids. I think Scott is a
great guy, and I think he will do the best he can with the $20.5 million if
the levy passes. But I still do not think it is the right way to do business
or handle the situation. You are right it was an open to the public process.
But most people do not pay close attention to government operations until
there is something to catch their attention or something really goes wrong.
We usually just trust them to do their job. I do not sit there and observe
the dog catcher doing her job. But if all of a sudden 30 rabid dogs were
running around my apartment I would probably be on her case about.

Hope that helps.

Donovan  J Arnold

>From: Debbie Gray <dgray at uidaho.edu>
>To: cjs <cjs at turbonet.com>
>CC: Vision 2020 <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] answers....answers.....answers
>Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 22:27:28 -0700 (PDT)
>
>So let me get this straight, you want them to submit their visions to
>several architects and then shop for the plan that matches their vision?
>
>Or do you want them to submit their visions to the architect they _shopped
>for_ and then put out an RFP for contractors to do the work (which seems
>to be what they are doing)  or are you just trying to negate every single
>step of this long, complex but well-documented public decision making
>process?
>
>They would all use the same cost estimates (RS Means building costs
>estimates or something similar), they would all operate under the same
>design guidelines. I am truly not getting your point. What would be gained
>by having 23 different architectural firms involved?
>
>maybe i need more sleep
>
>Debbie
>
>On Tue, 19 Apr 2005, cjs wrote:
> > Have you ever shopped for an attorney? Just like shopping for an
>architect.
> >
> > > And I don't get your second question or answer, what do you mean they
>have
> > > no idea what they are buying? quantity (of what?) quality (of what?).
> >
> > Case in point.
> >
> > Phil
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > On Tue, 19 Apr 2005, cjs wrote:
> > >
> > > > I do see I have received 2 answers today:
> > > >
> > > > 1) First, there was no competition for the architect.  I wonder how
>many > architects were consulted and interviewed for this project?  Sounds
>like on> e (1).
> > > >
> > > > 2) Second, that in all probability, MSD has no idea exactly what it
>is bu> ying. They don't have quantity or quality estimates, just a raw
>number.  > The location is not set in stone and, for a project that is 2-3
>years in th> e future, they have a 5% contingency fund. With the architects
>own numbers > we would be over 10% short before we even start construction.
>Plus or minus>  a point or two. Either way.
> > > >
> > > > Phil Roderick
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _____________________________________________________
> > > >  List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > > >  serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > > >                http://www.fsr.net
> > > >           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> > > > ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯> ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯> ¯¯¯¯
> > > >
> > >
> > > Debbie
> > >
> > >
>%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%
> > >   Debbie Gray      dgray at uidaho.edu
> > >   We must be willing to get rid of the life we've planned,
> > >   so as to have the life that is waiting for us." --Joseph Campbell
> > >
>%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%
> >
> >
>
>Debbie
>
>%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%
>   Debbie Gray      dgray at uidaho.edu
>   We must be willing to get rid of the life we've planned,
>   so as to have the life that is waiting for us." --Joseph Campbell
>%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%
>
>_____________________________________________________
>  List services made available by First Step Internet,
>  serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>                http://www.fsr.net
>           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯

_____________________________________________________
 List services made available by First Step Internet,
 serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
               http://www.fsr.net
          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯