Fwd: Re: [Vision2020] Ineffective Leadership Principles of Robert
E. Lee
sean
o2design at wsu.edu
Wed Sep 1 09:22:31 PDT 2004
Robert, will you be answering the questions I
posed below following this reply? You are on a
sidetrack, it appears, from the issues raised
below.
I await a clear discussion of the principles of
leadership. You address, I believe, the cause he
supported, not the way he inspired and succeeded
at his task. They are quite distinct.
Identifying openly, and discussing clearly the
core issue seems to be something that frequently
disintegrates potentially worthwhile list
discussions. This list is not immune to that it
would seem.
s
>
>perhhaps because he led a war that killed a
>million americans to defend the ability of a few
>to sell the children and their own children into
>slavery to be whipped, raped worked without pay
>and starved. maybe that's way
>robert greene ----- Original Message -----
>
>From: <mailto:o2design at wsu.edu>sean
>To: <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>vision2020 at moscow.com
>Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 8:33 AM
>Subject: [Vision2020] Ineffective Leadership Principles of Robert E. Lee
>
>Although I did not attend Mr. Kimmel's
>presentation, I did skim through the provided
>slides online. I am confused, however, about
>which of Lee's leadership principles or which
>character traits (e.g., brave, gentle, generous,
>noble, character in defeat) are Mr. Hansen and
>others suggesting are not to be valued?
>
>If the concern in emails such as the one below
>are about who was used to reflect values, but
>that the values themselves are agreeable, then
>that is worth saying. If the principles and
>traits are not valued then that also is worth
>stating so that readers are clear.
>
>I am also unclear whether Mr. Hansen and others
>are disputing whether Lee personified some or
>all of those traits as a general, or whether he
>was one of the most effective military leaders
>in U.S. history.
>
>Perhaps the issue is whether readers believe a
>leader's actions in personal life can be
>separated from public leadership. Further,
>whether errors in judgement, including moral
>ones, invalidate laudable leadership. Perhaps
>it will seem a stretch, but not too long ago
>this nation debated whether a president could
>choose to act in immoral ways, harming others,
>and still be a leader worth following and
>remembering for his positive traits.
>
>Again, specifically, I would like to know which
>of the PRINCIPLES of leadership that were cited
>are not what Moscow's community leaders can
>expect to be effective. Separately, it would
>valuable to read which readers consider to be
>cited principles that are not in keeping with
>the reader's values (it is probably worth not
>trying to speak for large segments of Moscow,
>but rather for one's self).
>
>The slides nicely break out the principles Mr.
>Kimmel seems to have espoused, so it should be
>easy for respondents to find them and not get
>lost on sidetracking issues (e.g., it seems to
>make little sense to spend so much time on Lee
>in a presentation, rather than drawing from his
>principles and then just focusing on them,
>showing a Confederate flag is likely to do
>little to help listeners get the principles).
>Unless of course avoiding the questions posed
>here is desired.
>
>Thanks,
>s
>
>
>>
>Greetings Visionaires -
>
>
>
>The following was provided to me by an unknown
>source who desires to remain nameless (and so it
>shall be), requesting that I post it here.
>Although the source is nameless, I feel that it
>reflects the heart-felt opinion of an
>ever-growing portion of the Moscow citizenry.
>
>
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>On August 5th, Moscow Chamber of Commerce
>Executive Director presented a Power Point
>lecture on the Leadership Principles of Robert
>E. Lee.
>
>
>
>Mr. Kimmell's text, which does not cite an
>author, is drawn largely from Robert E. Lee on
>Leadership : Executive Lessons in Character,
>Courage, and Vision by H.W. Crocker III. Prima
>Publishing.
>
>
>
>Favorable reviews from Casper Weinberger, Dinesh
>D'Sousza and S. Partrick Presley blurb the back
>cover of this book.
>
>Mr. Crocker is a "longtime student of Robert E.
>Lee, is the executive editor of Regnery
>Publishing Inc. He serves on the board of the
>Southern Military Institute, writes a column on
>Civil War books for Southern Partisan magazine,
>and has written on military history for
>National Review, American Spectator, and other
>publications" according to the back cover.
>
>
>
>(Regnery Publishing is a conservative publishing
>house carrying such authors as Ann Coulter,
>Patrick J. Buchanan, Dinesh D'Souza, General
>Joshiah Bunting, well, you get the picture.
>Southern Partisan Magazine is a notorious
>neo-Confederate magazine
>(<http://www.fair.org/press-releases/southern-partisan.html>http://www.fair.org/press-releases/southern-partisan.html)
>
>
>
>(The Southern Military Institute - a yet to be
>formed college -
><http://www.south-mil-inst.org/html/about_us.html>http://www.south-mil-inst.org/html/about_us.html)
>
>
>
>"In the tradition of the original "Institute,"
>SMI will be a small engineering and science
>institution emphasizing the foundations of
>Christian faith and morality. It will also
>provide a sound background in the history of
>Western Civilization, American politics,
>Constitutional studies, and military history.
>SMI will be steeped in southern tradition and
>will re-establish the all-male Corps of Cadets,
>the Gentleman's Honour System, the "Brother-Rat"
>Class System, and the traditional "Ratline"
>basic training system. SMI will sponsor programs
>that advance the knowledge and awareness of
>Southern history and culture including the
>honouring of Confederate Memorial Day and New
>Market Day, which celebrates the valor of the
>VMI cadets at the Battle of New Market, Virginia
>on the 15th of May, 1864"
>
>
>
>The gratuitous inclusion of photographs of
>Confederate Generals Jeb Stuart and Stonewall
>Jackson don't really have much to do with Robert
>E. Lee's leadership. I am unclear why they are
>included in the presentation - except to bolster
>the Confederate image.
>
>
>
>From Crockers book:
>
>
>
>"Robert E. Lee was a leader for the ages. The
>man heralded by Winston Churchill as "one of the
>noblest Americans who ever lived" inspired an
>out-manned, out-gunned army to achieve greatness
>on the battlefield. He was a brilliant
>strategist and a man of unyielding courage who,
>in the face of insurmountable odds, nearly
>changed forever the course of history.
>
>
>
>"A masterpiece-the best work of its kind I have
>ever read. Crocker's Lee is a Lee for all
>leaders to study; and to work, quite
>deliberately, to emulate." - Major General
>Josiah Bunting III, superintendent of the
>Virginia Military Institute [which as nearly as
>I can tell from the VMI website exists only on
>paper]
>
>
>
>In this remarkable book, you'll learn the keys
>to Lee's greatness as a man and a leader. You'll
>find a general whose standards for personal
>excellence was second to none, whose leadership
>was founded on the highest moral principles, and
>whose character was made of steel. You'll see
>how he remade a rag-tag bunch of men into one of
>the most impressive fighting forces history has
>ever known. You'll also discover other sides of
>Lee-the businessman who inherited the
>debt-ridden Arlington plantation and streamlined
>its operations, the teacher who took a backwater
>college and made it into a prestigious
>university, and the motivator who inspired those
>he led to achieve more than they ever dreamed
>possible. Each chapter concludes with the
>extraordinary lessons learned, which can be
>applied not only to your professional life, but
>also to your private life as well.
>
>
>
>Today's business world requires leaders of
>uncommon excellence who can overcome the cold
>brutality of constant change. Robert E. Lee was
>such a leader. He triumphed over challenges
>people in business face every day. Guided by his
>magnificent example, so can you."
>
>
>
>Visionaries should be prepared for the usual
>defense of race based slavery (the page number
>is the page number of Mr. Kimmell's presentation)
>
>
>
>Duty, he [Lee] believed in, yes. But duty
>directed one to serve people, not principles.
>Lee's attachment to what was tangible and real -
>the soil of Virginia, to his family, friends,
>and neighbors of the Old Dominion, helps explain
>his loyalty to the South in the War Between the
>States. Lee would not consent to raising a
>sword - or having other raise a sword - against
>his own people..... slaver owner were to be made
>free:, as Lee had hoped they would be, "that
>process should be achieved through oral
>persuasion, free legal advice - not by force."
>page 14 (emphasis in the original)
>
>
>
>Leaving aside the silliness connected with free
>legal advice for slaves, leaving aside the
>powerful word "IF" in describing potential
>emancipation this is the same old clap trap that
>comes from all apologist of the Lost Cause
>mythology, and causes pictures of Robert E. Lee
>to hang in classroom(s) in Logos School.
>
>
>
>Read this presentation and weep that such an
>example is being used in this community with the
>support of the executive board members of the
>Chamber of Commerce
>(<http://www.tomandrodna.com/notonthepalouse/Kimmell>http://www.tomandrodna.com/notonthepalouse/Kimmell)
>
>
>
>
>
>Take care,
>
>
>
>Tom Hansen
>
>Not On The Palouse (Or Monroe, Louisiana), Not Ever
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>_____________________________________________________
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> http://www.fsr.net
> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>ØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØ
>
>
>
>--
>Sean Michael
>
> ********
>"It is natural for man to indulge in the
>illusions of hope. We are apt to shut our eyes
>against a painful truth, and listen to the song
>of that siren till she transforms us into
>beastsŠ. For my part, whatever anguish of spirit
>it may cost, I am willing to know the whole
>truth; to know the worst, and to provide for it."
>
> -Patrick Henry
> American, Patriot
>
>
>_____________________________________________________
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> http://www.fsr.net
> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>/////////////////////////////////////////////////////
--
Thanks,
s
* * * * * * * *
Sean Michael
.dwg
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