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<div>Robert, will you be answering the questions I posed below
following this reply? You are on a sidetrack, it appears, from
the issues raised below.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>I await a clear discussion of the principles of leadership.
You address, I believe, the cause he supported, not the way he
inspired and succeeded at his task. They are quite
distinct.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Identifying openly, and discussing clearly the core issue seems
to be something that frequently disintegrates potentially worthwhile
list discussions. This list is not immune to that it would
seem.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>s</div>
<div><br></div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font size="-1">perhhaps because he led a
war that killed a million americans to defend the ability of a
few to sell the children and their own children into slavery to be
whipped, raped worked without pay and starved. maybe that's
way</font></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font size="-1">robert
greene </font>----- Original Message -----<br>
<blockquote><b>From:</b> <a
href="mailto:o2design@wsu.edu">sean</a></blockquote>
<blockquote><b>To:</b> <a
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a></blockquote
>
<blockquote><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, September 01, 2004 8:33
AM</blockquote>
<blockquote><b>Subject:</b> [Vision2020] Ineffective Leadership
Principles of Robert E. Lee</blockquote>
<blockquote><br></blockquote>
<blockquote>Although I did not attend Mr. Kimmel's presentation, I did
skim through the provided slides online. I am confused, however,
about which of Lee's leadership principles or which character traits
(e.g., brave, gentle, generous, noble, character in defeat) are Mr.
Hansen and others suggesting are not to be valued?</blockquote>
<blockquote><br></blockquote>
<blockquote>If the concern in emails such as the one below are about
who was used to reflect values, but that the values themselves are
agreeable, then that is worth saying. If the principles and
traits are not valued then that also is worth stating so that readers
are clear.</blockquote>
<blockquote><br></blockquote>
<blockquote>I am also unclear whether Mr. Hansen and others are
disputing whether Lee personified some or all of those traits as a
general, or whether he was one of the most effective military leaders
in U.S. history.</blockquote>
<blockquote><br></blockquote>
<blockquote>Perhaps the issue is whether readers believe a leader's
actions in personal life can be separated from public leadership.
Further, whether errors in judgement, including moral ones, invalidate
laudable leadership. Perhaps it will seem a stretch, but not too
long ago this nation debated whether a president could choose to act
in immoral ways, harming others, and still be a leader worth following
and remembering for his positive traits.</blockquote>
<blockquote><br></blockquote>
<blockquote>Again, specifically, I would like to know which of the
PRINCIPLES of leadership that were cited are not what Moscow's
community leaders can expect to be<u> effective</u>. Separately,
it would valuable to read which readers consider to be cited
principles that are not in keeping with the reader's values (it is
probably worth not trying to speak for large segments of Moscow, but
rather for one's self).</blockquote>
<blockquote><br></blockquote>
<blockquote>The slides nicely break out the principles Mr. Kimmel
seems to have espoused, so it should be easy for respondents to find
them and not get lost on sidetracking issues (e.g., it seems to make
little sense to spend so much time on Lee in a presentation, rather
than drawing from his principles and then just focusing on them,
showing a Confederate flag is likely to do little to help listeners
get the principles). Unless of course avoiding the questions
posed here is desired.</blockquote>
<blockquote><br></blockquote>
<blockquote>Thanks,</blockquote>
<blockquote>s</blockquote>
<blockquote><br></blockquote>
<blockquote><br>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><br></blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote>
<blockquote><font size="-1">Greetings Visionaires -</font><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote> <br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote><font size="-1">The following was provided to me by an
unknown source who desires to remain nameless (and so it shall be),
requesting that I post it here. Although the source is nameless,
I feel that it reflects the heart-felt opinion of an ever-growing
portion of the Moscow citizenry.</font><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote> <br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote><font
size="-1"
>--------------------------------------------------------------</font><br
>
</blockquote>
<blockquote> <br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote><font size="-1">On August 5th, Moscow Chamber of Commerce
Executive Director presented a Power Point lecture on the Leadership
Principles of Robert E. Lee.</font><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote> <br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote><font size="-1">Mr. Kimmell's text, which does not cite an
author, is drawn largely from Robert E. Lee on Leadership : Executive
Lessons in Character, Courage, and Vision by H.W. Crocker III. Prima
Publishing. </font><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote> <br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote><font size="-1">Favorable reviews from Casper Weinberger,
Dinesh D'Sousza and S. Partrick Presley blurb the back cover of this
book. </font></blockquote>
<blockquote><br></blockquote>
<blockquote><font size="-1">Mr. Crocker is a "longtime student of
Robert E. Lee, is the executive editor of Regnery Publishing Inc.
He serves on the board of the Southern Military Institute, writes a
column on Civil War books for Southern Partisan magazine, and has
written on military history for National Review, American
Spectator, and other publications" according to the back
cover.</font><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote> <br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote><font size="-1">(Regnery Publishing is a conservative
publishing house carrying such authors as Ann Coulter, Patrick J.
Buchanan, Dinesh D'Souza, General Joshiah Bunting, well, you get the
picture. Southern Partisan Magazine is a notorious
neo-Confederate magazine (</font><a
href="http://www.fair.org/press-releases/southern-partisan.html"><font
size="-1">http://www.fair.org/press-releases/southern-partisan.html</font
></a><font size="-1">)</font><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote> <br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote><font size="-1">(The Southern Military Institute - a yet
to be formed college -</font> <a
href="http://www.south-mil-inst.org/html/about_us.html"><font
size="-1">http://www.south-mil-inst.org/html/about_us.html</font></a><font
size="-1">)</font><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote> <br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote><font size="-1">"In the tradition of the original
"Institute," SMI will be a small engineering and science
institution emphasizing the foundations of Christian faith and
morality. It will also provide a sound background in the history of
Western Civilization, American politics, Constitutional studies, and
military history. SMI will be steeped in southern tradition and will
re-establish the all-male Corps of Cadets, the Gentleman's Honour
System, the "Brother-Rat" Class System, and the traditional
"Ratline" basic training system. SMI will sponsor programs
that advance the knowledge and awareness of Southern history and
culture including the honouring of Confederate Memorial Day and New
Market Day, which celebrates the valor of the VMI cadets at the Battle
of New Market, Virginia on the 15th of May, 1864"</font><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote> <br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote><font size="-1">The gratuitous inclusion of photographs of
Confederate Generals Jeb Stuart and Stonewall Jackson don't really
have much to do with Robert E. Lee's leadership. I am unclear
why they are included in the presentation - except to bolster the
Confederate image. </font><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote> <br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote><font size="-1">From Crockers book:</font><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote> <br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote><font size="-1">"Robert E. Lee was a leader for the
ages. The man heralded by Winston Churchill as "one of the
noblest Americans who ever lived" inspired an out-manned,
out-gunned army to achieve greatness on the battlefield. He was a
brilliant strategist and a man of unyielding courage who, in the face
of insurmountable odds, nearly changed forever the course of
history.</font><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote> <br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote><font size="-1">"A masterpiece-the best work of its
kind I have ever read. Crocker's Lee is a Lee for all leaders to
study; and to work, quite deliberately, to emulate." - Major
General Josiah Bunting III, superintendent of the Virginia Military
Institute [which as nearly as I can tell from the VMI website
exists only on paper]</font><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote> <br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote><font size="-1">In this remarkable book, you'll learn the
keys to Lee's greatness as a man and a leader. You'll find a general
whose standards for personal excellence was second to none, whose
leadership was founded on the highest moral principles, and whose
character was made of steel. You'll see how he remade a rag-tag bunch
of men into one of the most impressive fighting forces history has
ever known. You'll also discover other sides of Lee-the businessman
who inherited the debt-ridden Arlington plantation and streamlined its
operations, the teacher who took a backwater college and made it into
a prestigious university, and the motivator who inspired those he led
to achieve more than they ever dreamed possible. Each chapter
concludes with the extraordinary lessons learned, which can be applied
not only to your professional life, but also to your private life as
well.</font><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote> <br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote><font size="-1">Today's business world requires leaders of
uncommon excellence who can overcome the cold brutality of constant
change. Robert E. Lee was such a leader. He triumphed over challenges
people in business face every day. Guided by his magnificent example,
so can you."</font><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote> <br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote><font size="-1">Visionaries should be prepared for the
usual defense of race based slavery (the page number is the page
number of Mr. Kimmell's presentation)</font><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote> <br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote><font size="-1">Duty, he [Lee] believed in, yes. But
duty directed one to serve people, not principles. Lee's
attachment to what was tangible and real - the soil of Virginia, to
his family, friends, and neighbors of the Old Dominion, helps explain
his loyalty to the South in the War Between the States. Lee
would not consent to raising a sword - or having other raise a sword -
against his own people..... slaver owner were to be made free:, as Lee
had hoped they would be, "that process should be achieved through
oral persuasion, free legal advice - not by force." page 14
(emphasis in the original)</font></blockquote>
<blockquote><br></blockquote>
<blockquote> <br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote><font size="-1">Leaving aside the silliness connected with
free legal advice for slaves, leaving aside the powerful word
"IF" in describing potential emancipation this is the same
old clap trap that comes from all apologist of the Lost Cause
mythology, and causes pictures of Robert E. Lee to hang in
classroom(s) in Logos School.</font><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote> <br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote><font size="-1">Read this presentation and weep that such
an example is being used in this community with the support of the
executive board members of the Chamber of Commerce (</font><a
href="http://www.tomandrodna.com/notonthepalouse/Kimmell"><font
size="-1">http://www.tomandrodna.com/notonthepalouse/Kimmell</font></a
><font size="-1">)</font><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote> <br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote> <br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote><font size="-1">Take care,</font><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote> <br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote><font size="-1">Tom Hansen</font><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote><font size="-1">Not On The Palouse (Or Monroe, Louisiana),
Not Ever</font><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote> <br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote> <br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote> <br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote><br>
_____________________________________________________<br>
List services made available by First Step Internet,<br>
serving the communities of the Palouse since
1994. <br>
<span
></span>
http://www.fsr.net <span
></span
> <span
></span> <br>
mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<br>
иииииииииииииииииииииии<span
></span
>ииииииииииииииииииииииииииииии<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote><br></blockquote>
<blockquote><br></blockquote>
<blockquote><tt>--</tt></blockquote>
<blockquote>Sean Michael</blockquote>
<blockquote><br></blockquote>
<blockquote><x-tab>
</x-tab><x-tab>
</x-tab><x-tab>
</x-tab>********<br>
"It is natural for man to indulge in the illusions of hope. We
are apt to shut our eyes against a painful truth, and listen to the
song of that siren till she transforms us into beasts. For my part,
whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole
truth; to know the worst, and to provide for it."</blockquote>
<blockquote><br>
<x-tab>
</x-tab><x-tab>
</x-tab><x-tab>
</x-tab>-Patrick Henry<br>
<x-tab> </x-tab><x-tab>
</x-tab><x-tab>
</x-tab><x-tab>
</x-tab>American, Patriot<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote>
<hr></blockquote>
<blockquote>_____________________________________________________<br>
List services made available by First Step Internet,<br>
serving the communities of the Palouse since
1994. <br>
<span
></span>
http://www.fsr.net <span
></span
> <span
></span> <br>
mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<br>
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<x-sigsep><pre>--
</pre></x-sigsep>
<div>Thanks,<br>
s<br>
<br>
<br>
* * * * * * *
*<br>
Sean Michael<br>
.dwg</div>
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