[Vision2020] Longhaired Preachers (pace Joe Hill)
Joan Opyr
auntiestablishment@hotmail.com
Thu, 27 May 2004 22:27:20 -0700
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Eric writes in response to Melynda:
>. . . it presupposes that there's one truest religion. =20
>There must be, because something is true. Either a god created us, or =20
>he didn't. If he did, than that makes less true the religions who =20
>believe he didn't. Either Jesus rose or he didn't. If he did, then =20
>that makes less true the religions of those who believe he didn't. =20
>There is a truth, therefore some guesses at it are going to be closer =20
>than others. If you deny this, you're more of a sentimentalist than a =20
>realist.
Or, one might be a Universalist, denying none of the above but recognizin=
g the possibility of other apparently competing but in fact simultaneous =
truths. Is God so simple that s/he can be utterly encompassed by the lim=
ited religious thought of a single people, a single denomination, or a si=
ngle individual? What's sentimental about believing that there is more i=
n heaven and earth, Eric, than is dreamt of in your philosophy? Or, for =
that matter, in mine? I haven't cornered the market on right thinking, t=
hough I consider the occasional hostile takeover bid.
>I doubt there is a person on earth that has the exact understanding of w=
ho God is and the =20
>precise truth on every question of philosophy. I doubt any person has a =20
>complete understanding of the Bible. But you can bet some people are =20
>closer than others. =20
Why? Why would God give the truth to some but not to others? Why Yahweh=
in Israel and Shiva and Kali and Krishna in India? Why Jesus for you bu=
t not for me? Attempts at argument on this point invariably fail because=
they all boil down to the question of faith: I know what I know because =
God told me so. Even the great C. S. Lewis was unable to leap this final=
hurdle and win the triple crown. 'Mere Christianity,' like so many othe=
r attempts to prove that its author has the one, true answer, ultimately =
ends up biting its own tail.
>All day long you live with absolute truth, and yet when it comes to the =
matter =20
>of utmost importance, you want to deny that it exists!! Talk about =20
>faith! Melynda, I could have you preaching "absolute truth" in five =20
>minutes. All I would have to do is accuse you of murder and throw you =20
>in jail. You'd be screaming "absolute truth" at the top of your lungs, =20
>and paying a lawyer to argue about it.
Ah, but now you're confusing absolute truth with objective fact. Melynda=
did not murder Colonel Mustard in the library with a candlestick because=
five witnesses and a video camera place her in the cereal aisle at Tidym=
an's at the time of death. The judicial system (in theory, anyway) relie=
s on facts, not absolute truths. You can't skip from religion to legalis=
m without tripping on your jump rope.
>So it is clear that many who think they are Christians simply are not. T=
hey are deceiving =20
>themselves. Two people can have different interpretations of a religion,=
but one is certainly closer to >the real truth. And when they meet God, =
they will find out who was closer.
And I'm content to wait for that day. My objection to Doug -- and now to=
you, since you wish that you could "coerce" the entire Palouse into beli=
eving your interpretation of the Bible -- is that you aren't prepared to =
await God's judgment. You want to jump the gun; you want to embalm us wh=
ile we're still breathing. Why rush the Rapture? Why try to enshrine th=
eological ideas about heaven into secular, earthly law? You've got three=
score and ten years to tough it out down here and then bang, you're home=
free. I have no doubt that you believe we'd all be happier in your vers=
ion of paradise, but I don't want to go. Look at it this way -- if you'r=
e right and I'm wrong, you'll never have to see me again. =20
Joan Opyr/Auntie Establishment
PS: Maybe I'll get to Heaven and God will say, "Hard cheese, honey; this =
here's Wilson country," but I'm willing to risk it. In fact, I'm cautiou=
sly optimistic that I'll get pie in the sky when I die.
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer=
msn.com
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<HTML><BODY STYLE=3D"font:10pt verdana; border:none;"><DIV>Eric writes in=
response to Melynda:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>>. . . it presuppos=
es that there's one truest religion. <BR>>There must be, because=
something is true. Either a god created us, or <BR>>he didn't. If he =
did, than that makes less true the religions who <BR>>believe he didn'=
t. Either Jesus rose or he didn't. If he did, then <BR>>that mak=
es less true the religions of those who believe he didn't. <BR>>=
There is a truth, therefore some guesses at it are going to be closer <BR=
>>than others. If you deny this, you're more of a sentimentalist=
than a <BR>>realist.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Or, one might be a =
Universalist, denying none of the above but recognizing the possibility o=
f other apparently competing but in fact simultaneous truths. Is Go=
d so simple that s/he can be utterly encompassed by the limited religious=
thought of a single people, a single denomination, or a single individua=
l? What's sentimental about believing that there is more in heaven =
and earth, Eric, than is dreamt of in your philosophy? Or, for that=
matter, in mine? I haven't cornered the market on right thinking, =
though I consider the occasional hostile takeover bid.<BR><BR>&=
gt;I doubt there is a person on earth that has the exact understanding of=
who God is and the <BR>>precise truth on every question of philosophy=
I doubt any person has a <BR>>complete understanding of the Bible. B=
ut you can bet some people are <BR>>closer than others. </DIV> <DIV>&n=
bsp;</DIV> <DIV>Why? Why would God give the truth to some but not t=
o others? Why Yahweh in Israel and Shiva and Kali and Krishna in In=
dia? Why Jesus for you but not for me? Attempts at argument o=
n this point invariably fail because they all boil down to the quest=
ion of faith: I know what I know because God told me so. Even the g=
reat C. S. Lewis was unable to leap this final hurdle and win the triple =
crown. 'Mere Christianity,' like so many other attempts to prove th=
at its author has the one, true answer, ultimately ends up biting its own=
tail.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>>All day long you live with absolu=
te truth, and yet when it comes to the matter <BR>>of utmost importanc=
e, you want to deny that it exists!! Talk about <BR>>faith! =
; Melynda, I could have you preaching "absolute truth" in five <BR>>mi=
nutes. All I would have to do is accuse you of murder and throw you <BR>&=
gt;in jail. You'd be screaming "absolute truth" at the top of your =
lungs, <BR>>and paying a lawyer to argue about it.</DIV> <DIV> </=
DIV> <DIV>Ah, but now you're confusing absolute truth with objective fact=
Melynda did not murder Colonel Mustard in the library with a=
candlestick because five witnesses and a video camera place her in the c=
ereal aisle at Tidyman's at the time of death. The judicial system =
(in theory, anyway) relies on facts, not absolute truths. You can't=
skip from religion to legalism without tripping on your jump rope.<BR><B=
R>>So it is clear that many who think they are Christians simply are n=
ot. They are deceiving <BR>>themselves. Two people can have different =
interpretations of a religion, but one is certainly closer to >the rea=
l truth. And when they meet God, they will find out who was closer.<BR><B=
R>And I'm content to wait for that day. My objection to Doug -- and=
now to you, since you wish that you could "coerce" the entire Palou=
se into believing your interpretation of the Bible -- is that you ar=
en't prepared to await God's judgment. You want to jump the gu=
n; you want to embalm us while we're still breathing. Why rush the =
Rapture? Why try to enshrine theological ideas about heaven into&nb=
sp;secular, earthly law? You've got three score and ten years =
to tough it out down here and then bang, you're home free. I have n=
o doubt that you believe we'd all be happier in your version of paradise,=
but I don't want to go. Look at it this way -- if you're=
right and I'm wrong, you'll never have to see me again. =
</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Joan Opyr/Auntie Establishment</DIV>=
<DIV> </DIV> <DIV>PS: Maybe I'll get to Heaven and God wi=
ll say, "Hard cheese, honey; this here's Wilson country," but I'm wi=
lling to risk it. In fact, I'm cautiously optimistic that I'll=
get pie in the sky when I die.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>=
<DIV> </DIV></BODY></HTML><br clear=3Dall><hr>Ge=
t more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : <a href=3D'http://expl=
orer.msn.com'>http://explorer.msn.com</a><br></p>
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