[Vision2020] It is a matter of trust?
keely emerinemix
kjajmix1@msn.com
Wed, 19 May 2004 04:43:12 -0700
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Pat,
I'm not real eager to read more about the "believe it or not!" snippets =
you've heard all of your life about Catholics, and I regret that years =
ago I might have concluded that you represent all that I had heard to be =
true about religious and political conservatives. Fortunately, though, =
a "big world" way of thinking intruded, and I am forever grateful. =20
It requires me, however, to offer a corrective to your assertion that, =
for Catholics, "tenets of the church" include opposition to abortion and =
(presumably) birth control. The tenets of a faith -- any faith -- are =
found in what its scriptures declare to be true and by what it =
historically has taught and affirmed from those scriptures. For =
Catholics as well as Protestants and Orthodox, that includes belief in =
the Trinity, the deity of and atoning sacrifice of Christ, His =
resurrection, God's loving concern for the poor and the sinfulness of =
humankind, to name a few. Beliefs on abortion, birth control, just war, =
public education and gay marriage are conclusions that ecclesiastical =
hierarchy derives from those tenets, and as the Biblical books of Romans =
and First Corinthians make clear, the conscience of the believer =
confirms or denies them based on her Spirit-informed reading of the =
text. =20
That doesn't mean that I don't think that some people have made some =
wrong conclusions in their acceptance or denial of beliefs gleaned from =
the tenets of the faith. An example might be our current "Christian" =
administration, whose apparent unwillingness to follow God's mandate =
that we actively provide for and seek justice on behalf of the poor is =
an example of clear disobedience to a tenet of the faith. I'm waiting =
for the outcry on this one, Pat, but my guess is that I'll still be =
waiting this time tomorrow.
In fact, I think it's gonna be a very long summer . . .=20
keely emerine mix
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Pat Kraut=20
To: vision2020=20
Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 10:30 PM
Subject: [Vision2020] It is a matter of trust?
It seems to me that lately so many of the publications that we had =
respect for have fallen on their swords. Who and what are we to believe?
I have also heard that Catholics all have sex with the priest in the =
confessional...but I have no evidence of it myself. It curious to me =
that every email that responded to this completely ignored the part =
about Kerry and the other politicians and their voting records that are =
opposite of the tenets of the church. Thats what my email was really =
about.=20
Have a great day
PK
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Ron Force=20
To: Vision2020 Moscow=20
Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 10:52 AM
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] As if we needed any more . . .
It's surprising that the Economist got caught reprinting bogus =
information from the Internet without fact checking. The original =
assertion been traced back to a posting to rec.org.mensa. The book =
cited as containing the IQ data, IQ and the Wealth of Nations, doesn't. =
The original author won't answer inquiries.
When we're asked for statistical data at the UI Library, one of the =
first things we think is "Who would compile it, and where would it be =
published?".
IQ tests were routinely given to military recruits up through WW2, =
but I don't know of any agency or institution that uses them anymore. =
Public schools don't use them either. Lacking any obvious source for =
the data immediately raises a red flag. In this case, skepticism is =
warranted.
More information at: http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/
**********************************************
Ron Force Moscow ID USA
rforce@moscow.com
**********************************************=20
-----Original Message-----
From: vision2020-admin@moscow.com =
[mailto:vision2020-admin@moscow.com]On Behalf Of Joan Opyr
Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 6:59 PM
To: Vision2020 Moscow
Subject: [Vision2020] As if we needed any more . . .
Proof that Democrats really are smarter than Republicans? >From =
the latest issue of The Economist, May 15th - 21st, 2004. The original =
source of the data is "IQ and the Wealth of Nations," by Richard Lynn =
and Tatu Vanhanen.=20
State -- Average IQ -- 2000 Presidential vote
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<DIV style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: normal; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
verdana">
<DIV>Pat,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I'm not real eager to read more about the "believe it or not!" =
snippets=20
you've heard all of your life about Catholics, and I regret that years =
ago I=20
might have concluded that you represent all that I had heard to be true =
about=20
religious and political conservatives. Fortunately, though, a "big =
world"=20
way of thinking intruded, and I am forever grateful. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>It requires me, however, to offer a corrective to your assertion =
that, for=20
Catholics, "tenets of the church" include opposition to abortion and=20
(presumably) birth control. The tenets of a faith -- any faith -- =
are=20
found in what its scriptures declare to be true and by what it =
historically has=20
taught and affirmed from those scriptures. For Catholics as well =
as=20
Protestants and Orthodox, that includes belief in the Trinity, the deity =
of and atoning sacrifice of Christ, His resurrection, God's loving =
concern=20
for the poor and the sinfulness of humankind, to name a few. =
Beliefs on=20
abortion, birth control, just war, public education and gay marriage are =
conclusions that ecclesiastical hierarchy derives from those tenets, and =
as the=20
Biblical books of Romans and First Corinthians make clear, =
the conscience=20
of the believer confirms or denies them based on her Spirit-informed =
reading of=20
the text. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>That doesn't mean that I don't think that some people have made =
some wrong=20
conclusions in their acceptance or denial of beliefs gleaned from the =
tenets of=20
the faith. An example might be our current "Christian" =
administration,=20
whose apparent unwillingness to follow God's mandate that we actively =
provide=20
for and seek justice on behalf of the poor is an example of clear=20
disobedience to a tenet of the faith. I'm waiting for the outcry =
on this=20
one, Pat, but my guess is that I'll still be waiting this time =
tomorrow.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>In fact, I think it's gonna be a very long summer . . . </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>keely emerine mix</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>From:</B> <A=20
href=3D"mailto:pkraut@moscow.com">Pat Kraut</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
href=3D"mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, May 18, 2004 =
10:30=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [Vision2020] It is a =
matter of=20
trust?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>It seems to me that lately so many of the =
publications=20
that we had respect for have fallen on their swords. Who and what are =
we to=20
believe?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>I have also heard that Catholics all have sex =
with the=20
priest in the confessional...but I have no evidence of it myself. It =
curious=20
to me that every email that responded to this completely ignored the =
part=20
about Kerry and the other politicians and their voting records that =
are=20
opposite of the tenets of the church. Thats what my email was really =
about.=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Have a great day</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>PK</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV> ----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A href=3D"mailto:rforce@moscow.com">Ron Force</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
href=3D"mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">Vision2020 Moscow</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, May 18, 2004 =
10:52=20
AM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Vision2020] As =
if we=20
needed any more . . .</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D265433417-18052004>It's surprising that the =
Economist got=20
caught reprinting bogus information from the Internet without =
fact=20
checking. The original assertion been traced back to a posting =
to <!--StartFragment -->rec.org.mensa. The book cited as =
containing=20
the IQ data, <EM>IQ and the Wealth of Nations,</EM> doesn't. =
The=20
original author won't answer inquiries.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D265433417-18052004></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D265433417-18052004>When we're asked for =
statistical data at=20
the UI Library, one of the first things we think is "Who would =
compile it,=20
and where would it be published?".</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D265433417-18052004></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D265433417-18052004>IQ tests were routinely given =
to=20
military recruits up through WW2, but I don't know of any agency or=20
institution that uses them anymore. Public schools don't use =
them=20
either. Lacking any obvious source for the data immediately =
raises a=20
red flag. In this case, skepticism is warranted.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D265433417-18052004></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D265433417-18052004>More information at: <A=20
=
href=3D"http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/">http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/</A=
></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<P>**********************************************<BR>Ron=20
Force Moscow=20
ID <SPAN class=3D265433417-18052004>USA</SPAN></P>
<P><A href=3D"mailto:rforce@moscow.com">rforce@<SPAN=20
class=3D265433417-18052004>moscow.com</A></SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN=20
=
class=3D265433417-18052004></SPAN>***************************************=
*******=20
</P>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT=20
face=3DTahoma>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>=20
vision2020-admin@moscow.com =
[mailto:vision2020-admin@moscow.com]<B>On=20
Behalf Of </B>Joan Opyr<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, May 17, 2004 6:59=20
PM<BR><B>To:</B> Vision2020 Moscow<BR><B>Subject:</B> [Vision2020] =
As if=20
we needed any more . . .<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>Proof that Democrats really are smarter than =
Republicans? =20
>From the latest issue of The Economist, May 15th - 21st, =
2004. =20
The original source of the data is "IQ and the Wealth of =
Nations," by=20
Richard Lynn and Tatu Vanhanen. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>State -- Average IQ -- 2000 Presidential=20
=
vote</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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