[Vision2020] It is a matter of trust?

keely emerinemix kjajmix1@msn.com
Wed, 19 May 2004 04:43:12 -0700


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Pat,

I'm not real eager to read more about the "believe it or not!" snippets =
you've heard all of your life about Catholics, and I regret that years =
ago I might have concluded that you represent all that I had heard to be =
true about religious and political conservatives.  Fortunately, though, =
a "big world" way of thinking intruded, and I am forever grateful. =20

It requires me, however, to offer a corrective to your assertion that, =
for Catholics, "tenets of the church" include opposition to abortion and =
(presumably) birth control.  The tenets of a faith -- any faith -- are =
found in what its scriptures declare to be true and by what it =
historically has taught and affirmed from those scriptures.  For =
Catholics as well as Protestants and Orthodox, that includes belief in =
the Trinity, the deity of and atoning sacrifice of Christ, His =
resurrection, God's loving concern for the poor and the sinfulness of =
humankind, to name a few.  Beliefs on abortion, birth control, just war, =
public education and gay marriage are conclusions that ecclesiastical =
hierarchy derives from those tenets, and as the Biblical books of Romans =
and First Corinthians make clear, the conscience of the believer =
confirms or denies them based on her Spirit-informed reading of the =
text. =20

That doesn't mean that I don't think that some people have made some =
wrong conclusions in their acceptance or denial of beliefs gleaned from =
the tenets of the faith.  An example might be our current "Christian" =
administration, whose apparent unwillingness to follow God's mandate =
that we actively provide for and seek justice on behalf of the poor is =
an example of clear disobedience to a tenet of the faith.  I'm waiting =
for the outcry on this one, Pat, but my guess is that I'll still be =
waiting this time tomorrow.

In fact, I think it's gonna be a very long summer . . .=20

keely emerine mix


----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Pat Kraut=20
  To: vision2020=20
  Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 10:30 PM
  Subject: [Vision2020] It is a matter of trust?


  It seems to me that lately so many of the publications that we had =
respect for have fallen on their swords. Who and what are we to believe?
  I have also heard that Catholics all have sex with the priest in the =
confessional...but I have no evidence of it myself. It curious to me =
that every email that responded to this completely ignored the part =
about Kerry and the other politicians and their voting records that are =
opposite of the tenets of the church. Thats what my email was really =
about.=20
  Have a great day
  PK

   ----- Original Message -----=20
    From: Ron Force=20
    To: Vision2020 Moscow=20
    Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 10:52 AM
    Subject: RE: [Vision2020] As if we needed any more . . .


    It's surprising that the Economist got caught reprinting bogus =
information from the Internet without fact checking.  The original =
assertion been traced back to a posting to rec.org.mensa.   The book =
cited as containing the IQ data, IQ and the Wealth of Nations, doesn't. =
The original author won't answer inquiries.

    When we're asked for statistical data at the UI Library, one of the =
first things we think is "Who would compile it, and where would it be =
published?".

    IQ tests were routinely given to military recruits up through WW2, =
but I don't know of any agency or institution that uses them anymore. =
Public schools don't use them either.  Lacking any obvious source for =
the data immediately raises a red flag. In this case, skepticism is =
warranted.

    More information at: http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/

    **********************************************
    Ron Force         Moscow ID USA

    rforce@moscow.com

    **********************************************=20

      -----Original Message-----
      From: vision2020-admin@moscow.com =
[mailto:vision2020-admin@moscow.com]On Behalf Of Joan Opyr
      Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 6:59 PM
      To: Vision2020 Moscow
      Subject: [Vision2020] As if we needed any more . . .


      Proof that Democrats really are smarter than Republicans?  >From =
the latest issue of The Economist, May 15th - 21st, 2004.  The original =
source of the data is "IQ and the Wealth of Nations," by Richard Lynn =
and Tatu Vanhanen.=20

      State -- Average IQ -- 2000 Presidential vote
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<DIV style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: normal; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
verdana">
<DIV>Pat,</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>I'm not real eager to read more about the "believe it or not!" =
snippets=20
you've heard all of your life about Catholics, and I regret that years =
ago I=20
might have concluded that you represent all that I had heard to be true =
about=20
religious and political conservatives.&nbsp; Fortunately, though, a "big =
world"=20
way of thinking intruded, and I am forever grateful.&nbsp; </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>It requires me, however, to offer a corrective to your assertion =
that, for=20
Catholics, "tenets of the church" include opposition to abortion and=20
(presumably) birth control.&nbsp; The tenets of a faith -- any faith -- =
are=20
found in what its scriptures declare to be true and by what it =
historically has=20
taught and affirmed from those scriptures.&nbsp; For Catholics as well =
as=20
Protestants and Orthodox, that includes belief in the Trinity, the deity =

of&nbsp;and atoning sacrifice of Christ, His resurrection, God's loving =
concern=20
for the poor and the sinfulness of humankind, to name a few.&nbsp; =
Beliefs on=20
abortion, birth control, just war, public education and gay marriage are =

conclusions that ecclesiastical hierarchy derives from those tenets, and =
as the=20
Biblical books of Romans and First Corinthians make clear, =
the&nbsp;conscience=20
of the believer confirms or denies them based on her Spirit-informed =
reading of=20
the text.&nbsp; </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>That doesn't mean that I don't think that some people have made =
some wrong=20
conclusions in their acceptance or denial of beliefs gleaned from the =
tenets of=20
the faith.&nbsp; An example might be our current "Christian" =
administration,=20
whose apparent unwillingness to follow God's mandate that we actively =
provide=20
for and seek justice on behalf of&nbsp;the poor is an example of clear=20
disobedience to a tenet of the faith.&nbsp; I'm waiting for the outcry =
on this=20
one, Pat, but my guess is that I'll still be waiting this time =
tomorrow.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>In fact, I think it's gonna be a very long summer . . . </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>keely emerine mix</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>From:</B> <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:pkraut@moscow.com">Pat Kraut</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, May 18, 2004 =
10:30=20
PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [Vision2020] It is a =
matter of=20
  trust?</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>It seems to me that lately so many of the =
publications=20
  that we had respect for have fallen on their swords. Who and what are =
we to=20
  believe?</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>I have also heard that Catholics all have sex =
with the=20
  priest in the confessional...but I have no evidence of it myself. It =
curious=20
  to me that every email that responded to this completely ignored the =
part=20
  about Kerry and the other politicians and their voting records that =
are=20
  opposite of the tenets of the church. Thats what my email was really =
about.=20
  </FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Have a great day</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>PK</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
  style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV=20
    style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
    <A href=3D"mailto:rforce@moscow.com">Ron Force</A> </DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
    href=3D"mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">Vision2020 Moscow</A> </DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, May 18, 2004 =
10:52=20
    AM</DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Vision2020] As =
if we=20
    needed any more . . .</DIV>
    <DIV><BR></DIV>
    <DIV><SPAN class=3D265433417-18052004>It's surprising that the =
Economist got=20
    caught reprinting bogus&nbsp;information from the Internet without =
fact=20
    checking.&nbsp; The original assertion been traced back to a posting =
to <!--StartFragment -->rec.org.mensa.&nbsp;&nbsp; The book cited as =
containing=20
    the IQ data, <EM>IQ and the Wealth of Nations,</EM>&nbsp;doesn't. =
The=20
    original author won't answer inquiries.</SPAN></DIV>
    <DIV><SPAN class=3D265433417-18052004></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><SPAN class=3D265433417-18052004>When we're asked for =
statistical data at=20
    the UI Library, one of the first things we think is "Who would =
compile it,=20
    and where would it be published?".</SPAN></DIV>
    <DIV><SPAN class=3D265433417-18052004></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><SPAN class=3D265433417-18052004>IQ tests were routinely given =
to=20
    military recruits up through WW2, but I don't know of any agency or=20
    institution that uses them anymore.&nbsp;Public schools don't use =
them=20
    either. &nbsp;Lacking any obvious source for the data immediately =
raises a=20
    red flag. In this case, skepticism is warranted.</SPAN></DIV>
    <DIV><SPAN class=3D265433417-18052004></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><SPAN class=3D265433417-18052004>More information at: <A=20
    =
href=3D"http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/">http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/</A=
></SPAN></DIV>
    <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <P>**********************************************<BR>Ron=20
    Force&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Moscow=20
    ID&nbsp;<SPAN class=3D265433417-18052004>USA</SPAN></P>
    <P><A href=3D"mailto:rforce@moscow.com">rforce@<SPAN=20
    class=3D265433417-18052004>moscow.com</A></SPAN></P>
    <P><SPAN=20
    =
class=3D265433417-18052004></SPAN>***************************************=
*******=20
    </P>
    <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
      <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT=20
      face=3DTahoma>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>=20
      vision2020-admin@moscow.com =
[mailto:vision2020-admin@moscow.com]<B>On=20
      Behalf Of </B>Joan Opyr<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, May 17, 2004 6:59=20
      PM<BR><B>To:</B> Vision2020 Moscow<BR><B>Subject:</B> [Vision2020] =
As if=20
      we needed any more . . .<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
      <DIV>Proof that Democrats really are smarter than =
Republicans?&nbsp;=20
      &gt;From the latest issue of The Economist, May 15th - 21st, =
2004.&nbsp;=20
      The original source of the data is "IQ and the Wealth of =
Nations,"&nbsp;by=20
      Richard Lynn and Tatu&nbsp;Vanhanen.&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV>State --&nbsp;Average IQ&nbsp;-- 2000 Presidential=20
    =
vote</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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