[Vision2020] Shocked!
Tbertruss@aol.com
Tbertruss@aol.com
Thu, 13 May 2004 18:30:47 EDT
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Tom et. al.
While you have not have been influenced by your military training to become
abusive, I disagree that military training does not influence some who go
through this training to engage in abuse or torture, especially in the context of a
war with death and dismemberment of fellow soldiers.
The military must enforce a rather unthinking allegiance to discipline, the
automatic obeying of orders. This is definitely a goal of military training.
And you must know this mindset can lead many who have a less than well
developed sense of internal will regarding absolute right and wrong, to follow
ethically questionable orders from the less than ethical in command.
Soldiers who posed in those photos revealing abuse in US controlled prisons
in Iraq are asserting as we discuss that they were following orders. Yes, they
could have refused orders. But you also know the consequences in the
military of disobeying orders.
Of course we could discuss what "epidemic proportions," as you phrased it,
really means. But if only 5% of 130,000 troops are inclined to commit war
crimes, that's 6500 troops who might lose it, with the potential for a hell of a
lot of abuse, unless they are kept under tight control. And with 5% of those in
command also inclined to order abuse...
When your fellow soldiers are being blown apart, the temptation to extract
some pay back from the "enemy" is very high, even among ordinary people who in
ordinary circumstances are kind and considerate of their fellow humans.
There is also no doubt the military branches engage in a mindset that
utilizes abusive gender and sexually defined terminology as a technique of
motivation, control and discipline.
I've already talked to a Marine at length about this subject. It was an
enlightening series of discussions, I can assure you. The worst of it would burn
off the ears of most civilized readers of this list serve, so I won't reveal
the details. I will simply say that torture and abuse was defended as a
necessary component of fighting war.
To claim that military training does not lead to a dehumanization of the view
of the "enemy" in warfare that can lead to torture and abuse is a very
doubtful assertion.
Ted Moffett
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<HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><HTML><FONT SIZE=3D2 PTSIZE=3D10 FAMILY=
=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"><BR>
Tom et. al.<BR>
<BR>
While you have not have been influenced by your military training to become=20=
abusive, I disagree that military training does not influence some who go th=
rough this training to engage in abuse or torture, especially in the context=
of a war with death and dismemberment of fellow soldiers. <BR>
<BR>
The military must enforce a rather unthinking allegiance to discipline, the=20=
automatic obeying of orders. This is definitely a goal of military tra=
ining. And you must know this mindset can lead many who have a less th=
an well developed sense of internal will regarding absolute right and wrong,=
to follow ethically questionable orders from the less than ethical in comma=
nd.<BR>
<BR>
Soldiers who posed in those photos revealing abuse in US controlled prisons=20=
in Iraq are asserting as we discuss that they were following orders. Y=
es, they could have refused orders. But you also know the consequences=
in the military of disobeying orders.<BR>
<BR>
Of course we could discuss what "epidemic proportions," as you phrased it, r=
eally means. But if only 5% of 130,000 troops are inclined to commit w=
ar crimes, that's 6500 troops who might lose it, with the potential for a he=
ll of a lot of abuse, unless they are kept under tight control. And wi=
th 5% of those in command also inclined to order abuse... <BR>
<BR>
When your fellow soldiers are being blown apart, the temptation to extract s=
ome pay back from the "enemy" is very high, even among ordinary people who i=
n ordinary circumstances are kind and considerate of their fellow humans.<BR=
>
<BR>
There is also no doubt the military branches engage in a mindset that utiliz=
es abusive gender and sexually defined terminology as a technique of motivat=
ion, control and discipline. <BR>
<BR>
I've already talked to a Marine at length about this subject. It was a=
n enlightening series of discussions, I can assure you. The worst of i=
t would burn off the ears of most civilized readers of this list serve, so I=
won't reveal the details. I will simply say that torture and abuse wa=
s defended as a necessary component of fighting war.<BR>
<BR>
To claim that military training does not lead to a dehumanization of the vie=
w of the "enemy" in warfare that can lead to torture and abuse is a very dou=
btful assertion.<BR>
<BR>
Ted Moffett</FONT></HTML>
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