[Vision2020] Fw: Private [Says who]
Jeremy Downey
dunadhaigh@hotmail.com
Wed, 03 Mar 2004 15:02:04 -0800
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<P>Dear Ms. Mix,</P>
<P>Doubtless my coming to the defense of Mr. Jones will be interpreted in some quarters as a servile act of kissing-up, which I regret, but's there's really nothing I can do about it. Likewise it might be interpreted as an act of hostility or dismissal towards yourself, but this is simply not so. As I am a catholic (albeit a protestant catholic), I believe unity in the Spirit among the people of Christ's universal Church to be tremendously important. As you are united to me, along with all other believers, by that Spirit, the Holy Spirit of Christ, your rebuke bears more gravity than that of an unbeliever, for it is the rebuke of a sister. Now I know that your letter was addressed to Mr. Jones and not myself (you probably don't even know who I am), but as he is an Elder to whom I hold myself accountable, the federal nature of his position means that your rebuke to him trickles down to me and others like me, just as a rebuke to me or others under his c!
are would partially reflect on him. This is the nature of living as a part of Christ's body: what affects the head affects the hands and feet, and vice versa.<BR><BR>That said, I think your rebuke, though honest and admirably having its origin in the heart rather than the liver, was mistaken. Certainly Mr. Jones is a sinner like any other, but in this instance I do not believe he is "behaving badly." I must admit that I cannot comment on the charges of "breeziness" and being a "bully," as I don't understand what they are in reference to, and honestly find them incongruous with my experience of Mr. Jones' character, as he is rather shy, introverted, self-deprecating, and usually quite serious.</P>
<P>But you seem more particularly displeased with his reply to Wayne Fox's email, and to that I would like to respond. First of all, you will note that the letter was not public until Mr. Fox chose to make it so, which confidentiality was not for Mr. Jones' sake, but for Mr. Fox's. It is my impression that this incident makes Mr. Fox look bad, not Mr. Jones. When Mr. Fox disputes those he disagrees with, he calls them whores, says that their daughters should become prostitutes, implies that they sodomize boys, crassly describes them performing perverted sexual acts, and ridicules them for not being "normal." Mr. Jones refuses to stoop to his level; rather, he dismisses him to his vicious fantasies, refuses to play his game, and then asks him if his frame of mind makes him happy. It is an honest question, with a specific intent: to try to get through to Mr. Fox that living with your mind in the gutter and your liver on your sleeve makes you miser!
able. Certainly there is a barb to the letter (no one on a tirade wants to be yawned at), but I hardly think this is unbiblical. Jesus said some far more scathing things to his critics, as did Paul.</P>
<P>It's kind of odd to have to say this, but don't believe everything you read on the internet. Even the stuff that's real (for instance the gambling incident, which is hardly the big hush-up the scandalmongers want it to be) can be spiced up with a combination of fiction and selective reporting. People love a scandal, and they particularly love one involving people they hate anyway. And recently people have not been beyond inventing scandals for their own amusement.</P>
<P>So just take things with a healthy dose of salt. Come talk to Mr. Jones, or some other member of Christ Church or Trinity Reformed Church. I can't guarantee that they will have all the answers, but they can help, and you will have the benefit of dealing face-to-face with a real, live person, rather than an abstract internet e-person. We're just ordinary Christians like you, and we're not trying to hide something. And we are certainly desirous of having good relations with the other Christian congregations in this community. After all, we're part of the same Body.</P><BR><BR>The Lord be with you,<BR>
<DIV>Jeremy Downey</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Ad ignem tractus, ab igne consumptus, ex igne renatus.</DIV>
<P>>From: "keely emerinemix" <KJAJMIX1@MSN.COM>>To: "Art Deco aka W. Fox" <DECO@MOSCOW.COM>>CC: <CREDENDA@MOSCOW.COM>, <VISION2020@MOSCOW.COM>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: Private [Says who] >Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 22:10:50 -0800 > >Lest Mr. Jones think that I'm picking on him, let me be quick to correct him. "Picking on" would imply that I have an unreasonable, malicious basis for offering the rebuke I am about to deliver -- as if, perhaps, he were the new kid on the playground, the clumsy stock boy at work, or the dullard holding up the line at Safeway. No, I'm afraid that I respond to Mr. Jones the way one responds to a spiteful, sullen, and snotty teenager or a callous, clueless, craven neighbor, both of whose behavior, come to think of it, describes his remarkably well. > >The prerogative of a sister in Christ is to tell her brother -- and she is being hopeful and generous in her assessment here -- that he is behaving badly, and that his conti!
nued breeziness in dragging the name of Christ through the mud is not only causing immense harm to the Gospel and the Church on the Palouse, but has eternal consequences that all of the art, poetry, stout beer and classic literature in the world won't remedy. Concern for his wellbeing, the wellbeing of those he dismisses so readily, and for the testimony of Christ compels me, then, to suggest to Mr. Jones that while acting like a bully might fulfill, if not utterly exhaust, his creative yearnings, it has a terrible effect on one's spiritual life as well, as evidenced in his response to Wayne Fox, below. > >Mr. Jones says he's "quite happy" to have Wayne believe a whole hill of lies. It appears that Wayne believes that certain Christ Church/NSA young men and Christ Church staff were caught up in questionable behavior a couple of years ago regarding the infamous casino. Fair enough; it seems a reasonable conclusion given the evidence we have, and Doug Wilson's apparent !
refusal to respond to Bill London's simple questions regarding the sit
uation doesn't help. But I wonder if Mr. Jones' glee over Wayne's casino beliefs extends also to Wayne's entire belief system. Wayne has been nothing but gracious to me, and if the ethic guiding his life is also "a whole hill of lies," then I am grieved; I don't consider it "fun to watch," and I don't consider any part of any wrong belief to be "an affordable loss." Wonder why that is? And I wonder if I'm just hormonal, immature, or sickeningly sentimental for caring what Wayne thinks of me -- for allowing myself to be disliked because he perhaps disagrees with MY worldview, but at the same condemning myself if he dislikes me for being rude, unloving, haughty, or spiteful. And I can't help but wonder if my judging, or not, that Wayne is "a person who loves life" matters one tiny bit at all. If Wayne Fox is to be condemned by his creator, I would submit that it won't be on the basis of how creative he is or how evident his zingy, robust love for life is. The erudite Doug Jone!
s should not need a homemaker with no theological training to remind him of that, but she offers it nonetheless. > >It's simple. Doug Jones is behaving in a most unChristian manner, and as a Christian I am beyond heartsick about it. The Scriptures say it best, perhaps: "Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have, but do this with GENTLENESS and RESPECT, keeping a clear conscience so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander." (1 Peter 3:15-16) > >"Good behavior in Christ." Now THAT, we'd all like to see. > >Respectfully, > >Keely Emerine Mix > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Art Deco aka W. Fox > To: vision2020@moscow.com > Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 1:52 PM > Subject: [Vision2020] Fw: Private [Says who] > > > Private uninformative, insulting emails from Vision 2020 queries reading!
s will always be posted -- cowardice to deal in the marketplace of ide
as is not a pretty site. > > I think that we can conclude that Doug Jones lied about the public meeting on the casino. > > It is also appears that Logos is ashamed or embarrassed about the contents of the course "Biblical Femininity" > > If the below is an example of what to expect from the cult in response to a simple request for facts, it appears that Rose's castrating wit has claimed more victims then first thought. > > Wayne Fox > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Doug Jones" <CREDENDA@MOSCOW.COM>> To: "'Art Deco aka W. Fox'" <DECO@MOSCOW.COM>> Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 10:37 AM > Subject: Private > > > > Wayne, > > > > Can you remind me again, Wayne, why I should take time to care what you > > think? I'm quite happy to let you believe a whole hill of lies; it's fun > > to watch and an affordable loss. Don't listen to anything cultists like > > me say, Wayne; we'll only lea!
d you astray. > > > > I responded to Saundra privately. > > > > Are you leading the good life yet, Wayne? If I saw you on the street > > would I think "there goes a person who loves life?" Do you do anything > > creative? > > > > Doug Jones > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: vision2020-admin@moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-admin@moscow.com] > > On > > > Behalf Of Art Deco aka W. Fox > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 12:58 PM > > > To: vision2020@moscow.com > > > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] dougsplotch.net > > > > > > Doug Jones, et al, > > > > > > I know that I am slow-witted and semi-senile. However, I don't > > remember > > > your posting an answer to Saundra Lund's questions below. > > > > > > Even worse, I don't remember the public meeting on the Casino issue!
at > > all. > > > Neither does the LMT. A search of th
eir archives under many different > > > keywords returns no article mentioning a public meeting on this issue. > > Of > > > course, all my friends are slow-witted wastrels also, but none of them > > can > > > remember such a meeting either. > > > > > > Perhaps, you would be so kind to jog our rotting memories with the > > date of > > > and the general comments made at such meeting. > > > > > > Perhaps, you would also be so gracious so as to respond to the V 2020 > > query > > > yesterday about the "Biblical Femininity" course taught at Logos > > School. > > > There's nothing too graphic or esoteric about it to be ashamed of is > > there? > > > > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > Wayne Fox > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Saundra Lund" <SSLUND@ADE!
LPHIA.NET>> > > To: "'Doug Jones'" <CREDENDA@MOSCOW.COM>; "'Vision 20/20'" > > > <VISION2020@MOSCOW.COM>> > > Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 2:46 PM > > > Subject: RE: [Vision2020] dougsplotch.net > > > > > > > > > > Doug Jones wrote: > > > > "Now I'm taking my winnings and heading for a night out at the Red > > Door." > > > > > > > > Hopefully, this will catch you before you head out. I asked the > > following > > > > questions yesterday in response to your post and am still awaiting > > > answers: > > > > > > > > Doug Jones wrote: > > > > "We openly explained our decision in a public meeting almost a year > > ago . > > > . > > > > . " > > > > > > > > Well, that's a public meeting I somehow unfortunately missed. Can > > you > > > > prov!
ide more information about this public meeting? When & where >
> was it > > > > held and how was it publicized? Did any news reporters attend? I > > don't > > > > recall reading/seeing any coverage of the meeting, which I find > > somewhat > > > > surprising given the subject matter and number of press at the more > > recent > > > > so-called "Town Hall meeting". I was out-of-state a fair amount in > > 2003, > > > > but I read the newspapers after each trip and just don't recall > > reading > > > > anything about this, so I'd appreciate more information about Christ > > > > Church's actions regarding this horrendous organized wickedness. > > > > > > > > Doug Jones also wrote: > > > > ". . . and we posted that explanation for months." > > > > > > > > Yes, I notice Christ Church's explanation of the illegal activities > > and > > > the > > >!
> Church's active role in the aftermath are now gone, which really is > > too > > > bad > > > > for those of us interested in truth. After looking at > > > www.dougsplotch.net, > > > > I wanted to compare/contrast the info there to what I'd read on the > > Christ > > > > Church site, but the links for those specific "Bizarre Charges" > > ("Theft, > > > > Tyranny, Cover-up, Violence, and Other "Irremediable Wickedness > > Against > > > the > > > > Lord Jesus Christ.") seem to be broken. I thought perhaps the > > Christ > > > Church > > > > web site was having difficulties (perhaps because so many of the > > minions > > > > have been busy with their Hate Splotch), but am I correctly > > understanding > > > > now that Christ Church's official explanation has now been > > permanently > > >!
; > removed? If so, what a pity. > > > > > > >
> Doug Jones further wrote: > > > > "One pastor who was part of a denominational group reviewing our > > handling > > > of > > > > this situation said it was a brilliant solution." > > > > > > > > And, what denominational group was that? Surely you're not > > referencing > > > > Wilson's CRE (Confederation of Reformed Evangelicals)? If so, then > > isn't > > > > saying "One pastor who was part of a denominational group reviewing > > our > > > > handling of this situation said it was a brilliant solution," akin > > to > > > having > > > > the fox watch the hen house??? If not, why not? > > > > > > > > Saundra Lund > > > > Moscow, ID > > > > > > > > The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people > > to do > > > > nothing. > > &g!
t; > -Edmund Burke > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: vision2020-admin@moscow.com > > [mailto:vision2020-admin@moscow.com] > > > On > > > > Behalf Of Doug Jones > > > > Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 10:35 AM > > > > To: 'Vision 20/20' > > > > Subject: RE: [Vision2020] dougsplotch.net > > > > > > > > > > > > Some anonymous person writing about shame and integrity wrote: > > > > > > > > > A kirker in good standing recently told me, "Doug Jones is going > > > > straight to > > > > > hell." He went on to describe Jones as the "Wormtongue" of Christ > > > > Church. > > > > > This kirker is not alone. A local pastor calls Doug Jones the > > Joseph > > > > > Goebbels of Christ Church > > > > > > > >!
; Woohoo! I won! I won! Hell, Wormtongue AND Goebbels! I finally won &
gt; > the > > > > office pool! It's taken a long time, but I'm glad to be on top. Now > > I'm > > > > taking my winnings and heading for a night out at the Red Door. > > > > > > > > Doug Jones > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____________________________________________________ > > > > List services made available by First Step Internet, > > > > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. > > > > http://www.fsr.net > > > > mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com > > > > ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____________________________________________________ > > > List services made available by First Step Internet, > > > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. > > > http://www.fsr.net > &g!
t; > mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com > > > ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ > > > > > > </P></DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr> <a href="http://g.msn.com/8HMAENUS/2746??PS=">Learn how to help protect your privacy and prevent fraud online at Tech Hacks & Scams.</a> </html>