[Vision2020] What is relative moralism: Ask the Source
Art Deco
deco@moscow.com
Sat, 31 Jan 2004 09:46:01 -0800
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Can you say "Diversion" or "Hiding"?
Wayne Fox
----- Original Message -----
From: Nate Wilson
To: vision2020@moscow.com ; Art Deco
Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2004 9:12 AM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] What is relative moralism: Ask the Source
When I read Mr. Fox's message (pasted below) I thought to myself, "Self,
what this man thinks he wants is honest dialog. Really honest. But what he
needs is a warm security-providing hug." Would those of you close enough to
Mr. Fox please provide him with a warm embrace? I don't think he would ask
me in if he found me on his front step with, in the words of the poet, "arms
wide open."
NDW
Art Deco wrote:
Why don't we ask the Cult Master himself what he meant?
Although he claims to have abandoned us lost souls on Vision 2020, his
son Nate and other cultist still lurk on Vision 2020 policing our
intolerance among other things.
Maybe Nate or another cultist or maybe (Gasp!!!) the Master himself
might condescend to provide an explicit, well defined answer?
If we don't get an answer, perhaps we are to assume that as usual, the
Cult Master doesn't really know what he is talking about.
Wayne Fox
----- Original Message -----
From: Aldoussoma@aol.com
To: thansen@moscow.com ; deco@moscow.com ; vision2020@moscow.com
Sent: Friday, January 30, 2004 4:46 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] What is relative moralism
Tom et. al.
Thanks for your reply and definition of "situational ethics."
My suggested definition of moral relativism with the analogy to the
theory of relativity would not be better defined as situational ethics,
according to the definition you offer, nor do I think based on what I have
gathered from Wilson's statements that Wilson would think his view of moral
relativism is better defined according to your definition of situational
ethics.
First, you stated "I believe WHAT WILSON MEANS by 'relative moralism'
is better defined as situational ethics." So you are at least in this one
case appearing to tell us how Wilson defines an idea he has used over and
over, that of "relative moralism." If you state that what someone "means"
by moral relativism is better defined by the term situational ethics, you
are stating something about that person's beliefs.
Furthermore, the definition of "situational ethics" you offer could
apply to Wilson's stand on the death penalty or slavery, making Wilson a
believer in situational ethics, a phrase you imply better defines moral
relativism, which would contradict Wilson's statements that he is not a
moral relativist.
Also, your definition of situational ethics I do not think can be
equated with, or defined in terms of, moral relativism in the strong sense
of this phrase, because of fundamental contradictions involved. I suggested
moral relativism means there are no universal moral principles that apply to
all situations, which is clearly implied in my analogy with the theory of
relativity which states there is no one universal time applying to all
places in the universe. This is a very different definition of morality than
suggested in your definition of situational ethics, which appears to allow
for universal principles of morality, with some higher principles overruling
other ones in specific situations.
If I am correct, moral relativism is not "better defined as
situational ethics," according to my view or Wilson's, as you suggested, at
least not according to the definition you supplied.
Thanks for your time.
Ted Moffett
Tom wrote:
I stated:
"I believe that what Douglas Wilson means by 'relative moralism' is
better
defined as situational ethics."
To which Ted "I have no last name" responded:
"Please Tom, do explain what "situational ethics" is, in terms of
Wilson's
beliefs, which you appeared to claim to understand."
Mr. "I have no last name" - I do not claim anywhere in my 16-word post
that
I understand Douglas Wilson's beliefs. Only he can explain his
beliefs.
As far as "situational ethics" is concerned:
situational ethics - The philosophy that there are overriding ethical
maxims, but that sometimes it is necessary to set them aside in
particular
situations to fulfill a higher law or principle.
http://highered.mcgraw-hill.com/sites/0767430158/student_view0/glossary.html
Now, if you will excuse me I have some posting to do.
Tom Hansen
Not On The Palouse, Not Ever
A
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<BODY text=3D#000000 bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow" size=3D2>Can you say "Diversion" or=20
"Hiding"?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow" size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow" size=3D2>Wayne Fox</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dnatewilson@moscow.com =
href=3D"mailto:natewilson@moscow.com">Nate=20
Wilson</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dvision2020@moscow.com=20
href=3D"mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A> ; <A=20
title=3Ddeco@moscow.com href=3D"mailto:deco@moscow.com">Art Deco</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, January 31, =
2004 9:12=20
AM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] What =
is=20
relative moralism: Ask the Source</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>When I read Mr. Fox's message (pasted below) I thought =
to=20
myself, "Self, what this man thinks he wants is honest dialog. Really =
honest.=20
But what he needs is a warm security-providing hug." Would those of =
you close=20
enough to Mr. Fox please provide him with a warm embrace? I don't =
think he=20
would ask me in if he found me on his front step with, in the words of =
the=20
poet, "arms wide open."<BR><BR>NDW<BR><BR>Art Deco wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite=3Dmid001f01c3e795$ec576640$daa17e40@newmicronpccom=20
type=3D"cite"><META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1276" =
name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow" size=3D2>Why don't we ask the Cult =
Master=20
himself what he meant?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow" size=3D2>Although he claims to have =
abandoned=20
us lost souls on Vision 2020, his son Nate and other cultist still =
lurk on=20
Vision 2020 policing our intolerance among other =
things.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow" size=3D2>Maybe Nate or another =
cultist or maybe=20
(Gasp!!!) the Master himself might condescend to provide an =
explicit, well=20
defined answer?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow" size=3D2>If we don't get an answer, =
perhaps we=20
are to assume that as usual, the Cult Master doesn't really =
know what=20
he is talking about.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow" size=3D2>Wayne Fox</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,0) 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV=20
style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; font-stretch: normal; font-size-adjust: =
none">-----=20
Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228) 0% 50%; FONT: 10pt arial; =
font-stretch: normal; font-size-adjust: none; moz-background-clip: =
initial; moz-background-inline-policy: initial; moz-background-origin: =
initial"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3DAldoussoma@aol.com=20
href=3D"mailto:Aldoussoma@aol.com">Aldoussoma@aol.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; font-stretch: normal; font-size-adjust: =
none"><B>To:</B>=20
<A title=3Dthansen@moscow.com=20
href=3D"mailto:thansen@moscow.com">thansen@moscow.com</A> ; <A=20
title=3Ddeco@moscow.com =
href=3D"mailto:deco@moscow.com">deco@moscow.com</A> ;=20
<A title=3Dvision2020@moscow.com=20
href=3D"mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; font-stretch: normal; font-size-adjust: =
none"><B>Sent:</B>=20
Friday, January 30, 2004 4:46 PM</DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; font-stretch: normal; font-size-adjust: =
none"><B>Subject:</B>=20
Re: [Vision2020] What is relative moralism</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT size=3D2 =
ptsize=3D"10"><BR>Tom=20
et. al. <BR><BR>Thanks for your reply and definition of =
"situational=20
ethics." <BR><BR>My suggested definition of moral relativism with =
the=20
analogy to the theory of relativity would not be better defined as =
situational ethics, according to the definition you offer, nor do =
I think=20
based on what I have gathered from Wilson's statements that Wilson =
would=20
think his view of moral relativism is better defined according to =
your=20
definition of situational ethics. <BR><BR>First, you stated "I =
believe=20
WHAT WILSON MEANS by 'relative moralism' is better defined as =
situational=20
ethics." So you are at least in this one case appearing to =
tell us=20
how Wilson defines an idea he has used over and over, that of =
"relative=20
moralism." If you state that what someone "means" by moral=20
relativism is better defined by the term situational ethics, you =
are=20
stating something about that person's beliefs. =
<BR><BR>Furthermore, the=20
definition of "situational ethics" you offer could apply to =
Wilson's stand=20
on the death penalty or slavery, making Wilson a believer in =
situational=20
ethics, a phrase you imply better defines moral relativism, which =
would=20
contradict Wilson's statements that he is not a moral relativist.=20
<BR><BR>Also, your definition of situational ethics I do not think =
can be=20
equated with, or defined in terms of, moral relativism in the =
strong sense=20
of this phrase, because of fundamental contradictions involved. =
I=20
suggested moral relativism means there are no universal moral =
principles=20
that apply to all situations, which is clearly implied in my =
analogy with=20
the theory of relativity which states there is no one universal =
time=20
applying to all places in the universe. This is a very different=20
definition of morality than suggested in your definition of =
situational=20
ethics, which appears to allow for universal principles of =
morality, with=20
some higher principles overruling other ones in specific =
situations.=20
<BR><BR>If I am correct, moral relativism is not "better defined =
as=20
situational ethics," according to my view or Wilson's, as you =
suggested,=20
at least not according to the definition you supplied. =
<BR><BR>Thanks for=20
your time. <BR><BR>Ted Moffett <BR><BR>Tom wrote: <BR><BR>I =
stated:=20
<BR><BR>"I believe that what Douglas Wilson means by 'relative =
moralism'=20
is better <BR>defined as situational ethics." <BR><BR>To which Ted =
"I have=20
no last name" responded: <BR><BR>"Please Tom, do explain what =
"situational=20
ethics" is, in terms of Wilson's <BR>beliefs, which you appeared =
to claim=20
to understand." <BR><BR>Mr. "I have no last name" - I do not claim =
anywhere in my 16-word post that <BR>I understand Douglas Wilson's =
beliefs. Only he can explain his beliefs. <BR><BR>As far as=20
"situational ethics" is concerned: <BR><BR>situational ethics - =
The=20
philosophy that there are overriding ethical <BR>maxims, but that=20
sometimes it is necessary to set them aside in particular =
<BR>situations=20
to fulfill a higher law or principle. <BR><A =
class=3Dmoz-txt-link-freetext=20
=
href=3D"http://highered.mcgraw-hill.com/sites/0767430158/student_view0/gl=
ossary.html">http://highered.mcgraw-hill.com/sites/0767430158/student_vie=
w0/glossary.html</A>=20
<BR><BR>Now, if you will excuse me I have some posting to do. =
<BR><BR>Tom=20
Hansen <BR>Not On The Palouse, Not Ever <BR><BR>A=20
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