[Vision2020] The Divinity of Christ

Tue Dec 28 16:26:26 PST 2004

Ms. Opyr says: "The first three gospels (and the excluded Book of
Thomas) sing a rather different tune about the divinity of Jesus."

Ms. Opyr, this is simply not true. While I have not read the gospel
according to Thomas, I believe that Thomas himself attested to the
divinity of Jesus. John 20:28 Thomas said to him [Jesus], "My Lord and
my God!"

As for the other gospels, Jesus is repeatedly called the Son of God.

Matthew 26:63-64 And the high priest said to Him, "I adjure You by the
living God, that You tell us whether You are the Christ, the Son of
God." Jesus said to him, "You have said it yourself."

Matthew 27:54 Now the centurion, and those who were with him keeping
guard over Jesus, when they saw the earthquake and the things that were
happening, became very frightened and said, "Truly this was the Son of
God!"

Mark 1:1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God.

Mark 3:11 Whenever the unclean spirits saw Him, they would fall down
before Him and shout, "You are the Son of God!"

Mark 15:39 When the centurion, who was standing right in front of Him,
saw the way He breathed His last, he said, "Truly this man was the Son
of God!"

Luke 1:35 The angel answered and said to her, "The Holy Spirit will come
upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for
that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God.

Luke 4:41 Demons also were coming out of many, shouting, "You are the
Son of God!" But rebuking them, He would not allow them to speak,
because they knew Him to be the Christ.

Luke 22:70 And they all said, "Are You the Son of God, then?" And He
[Jesus] said to them, "Yes, I am."

He is called other names as well which testify to his divinity - names
like "Christ", "Messiah", and "Lord".

It is better for you to simply reject the gospel that to poorly
represent it.

Proverbs 17:28 Even a fool, when he keeps silent, is considered wise;
When he closes his lips, he is considered prudent.

________________________________

From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com
[mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] On Behalf Of Joan Opyr
Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 3:03 PM
To: Vision2020 Moscow
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Dropping a log on Dale's blog

Dear Saundra, 

As you've no doubt noticed, Ron Smith believes he's answered me by
quoting John 2:23: "Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the
one who confesses the Son has the Father also."  This, of course,
suggests that I'm on my way to a fiery rotisserie in hell where I'll
spend eternity listening to the Chili's kitchen chorus singing, "I want
my baby back, baby back, baby back ribs."  That's as may be, but it does
not make me a "professed atheist."  Ron (and Dale) need to pay more
attention to their vocabulary: what we're talking about here is
semantics, not salvation.  

No, I don't "have the son."  I don't believe that Jesus was/is the one
and only son of God.  I don't believe in his divinity.  I don't believe
that God is tripartite.  But I am not an atheist.  If I were, I'd
believe in no god at all.  None.  Nada.  Rien.  I'd happily sing John
Lennon's Imagine with a perfectly straight face.  But that's not me.
I'm singing "Hear, O Israel, the Lord, our God, the Lord is One."  (Shma
Yisrael, Ha'Shem Elokenu Ha'Shem Echad.)  Now that might be heathenism
in Ron and Dale's book; it might be hellfire and damnation; but it ain't
atheism.

Thus endeth the lesson.  Reading for Shabbat school next week: Elaine
Pagels' Beyond Belief, which will teach Ron and Dale a thing or two
about the origins of the Book of John and the fight in the early church
over whether or not to include it in the Biblical canon.  The first
three gospels (and the excluded Book of Thomas) sing a rather different
tune about the divinity of Jesus.

Shalom (with teeth gritted),

Joan Opyr/Auntie Establishment

----- Original Message -----

	From: Saundra Lund

	Sent: Monday, December 27, 2004 9:59 PM

	To: 'Joan Opyr'; 'Vision2020 Moscow'

	Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Dropping a log on Dale's blog

	Ah, Joan, Joan, Joan . . . 

	Dale Courtney monologued:
	"It cracks me up when Joan--a professed atheist . . . "
	http://right-mind.us/

	Your response:
	"I am not an atheist; I am a Jew.  I believe in one God . . ."

	Why are you quibbling details?

	I think, in Wilson World's book, there is no real difference:
if you reject the
	Trinity (and their own peculiar interpretation of the Trinity &
Christianity, no
	less), then you are damned to h*ll, pure & simple.  It matters
not how strong
	your faith in God:  if you don't accept their particular flavor
of Christianity
	(and sharing the first five books of the Bible just isn't good
enough), then
	nothing else matters.  You are an UnBeliever or a Non-Believer,
depending on
	which minion you are listening to.  Heck, they think a lot of
Christians like
	myself won't be making it to Heaven, either, so you're in good
company  :-)

	[Actually, I'm quite secure in my belief that Heaven will be a
wonderfully rich
	place with a wide variety of faiths.  I'll be there, and so will
you, and lots
	of other fascinating folk and beings.

	However, I suspect that those who will be conspicuously and
blessedly absent
	will be those who lived truly *wicked* lives.  You know, those
who think they
	know better than everyone else what God *really* wants, those
with the "holier
	than thou" attitude, those who try to force their beliefs on
others to line
	their own pockets, those who think it's their place to sit in
judgment of
	others, etc.

	Of course, I could well be wrong about that, and that's OK:  I
have supreme
	confidence in God's, not Dale's or Doug's, ability to sort it
all out  :-)]

	So, while Dale screwed up calling you an atheist, it doesn't
really matter:  you
	are going straight to h*ll, young lady, unless you change your
beliefs and
	practices.

	And, now I'm going to be childish and immature and gloat a bit:
I've had the
	*extreme* pleasure of reading Joan's forthcoming book . . .
	neener-neener-neener!  Next Fall, when it's published, I
strongly suggest that
	everyone RUN to get it  :-)  It is truly a delightfully
entertaining work penned
	by an obviously gifted writer!  In fact, I've had to change my
top position for
	the best new fiction  :-)

	Joan, I know it's probably too early to ask, but is there a
local book-signing
	planned???

	Saundra Lund
	Moscow, ID

	The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good
people to do
	nothing.
	-Edmund Burke

	-----Original Message-----
	From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com
[mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] On
	Behalf Of Joan Opyr
	Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2004 5:22 PM
	To: Vision2020 Moscow
	Subject: [Vision2020] Dropping a log on Dale's blog

	Dear Visionaries,

	As I've mentioned before, I don't follow Dale Courtney's or Doug
Wilson's blogs.
	This is because A) I'm very busy these days plugging the
upcoming publication of
	my *book; and B) if I wanted any more crap out of either of
them, I'd squeeze
	their heads.  However, as several people have now emailed me
privately to tell
	me that Dale has referred to me as an atheist, I feel that I
must lower the boom
	on his blog and set the record straight.  (Or as straight as I
can considering
	the fact that I'm a lesbian and thus by definition as bent as a
dog's hind leg.
	But I digress.  As usual.  A-hem.)

	I am not an atheist; I am a Jew.  I believe in one God, and that
one God would
	be the God of Abraham.  Dale, as a self-proclaimed Reformed
Christian,
	technically worships the same God I worship.  The only
difference is that Dale
	has given my God a few accessories, like a son, a Virgin, and a
split
	personality (think The Three Faces of Eve).  Now, I happen to
like my God simple
	and singular, not Trinitarian, not belled, and not whistled.
Nevertheless, I
	believe that it is incumbent upon Dale (and, for that matter,
upon all
	Christians) to recognize that the God they worship is the God of
the Jews.  The
	Burning Bush  The voice on Mount Sinai.  The pillar of fire and
cloud.  Jehovah
	is Jehovah is Jehovah, but that doesn't mean that unless I
worship him in
	triplicate, I'm an atheist.  Far from it.  

	If I were in any way childish or immature, I might go so far as
to remind Dale
	that my people got to the flaming shrubbery first, and that he
and his ilk are
	really just a load of Johnny-come-latelys.  I might toss in a
"neener-neener,"
	or a "nyuk-nyuk," or a "shut yer yap, ya ignorant gentile."
Good thing I'm not,
	eh?  That would be so tacky.

	I've got a brand new pair of roller-skates.  I want Dale to give
me back my key.

	Joan Opyr/Auntie Establishment
	*book, as in first novel, as in to be published in the Fall of
2005 by Bywater
	Books, which can be visited at www.bywaterbooks.com
<http://wwwbywaterbooks.com>
	.

________________________________

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