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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Ms. Opyr says: “The first three
gospels (and the excluded Book of Thomas) sing a rather different tune about
the divinity of Jesus.”<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Ms. Opyr, this is simply not true. While I
have not read the gospel according to Thomas, I believe that Thomas himself attested
to the divinity of Jesus. <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>John 20:28 Thomas
said to him [Jesus], “My Lord and my God!”</span></b><i><span
style='font-style:italic'><o:p></o:p></span></i></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>As for the other gospels, Jesus is repeatedly
called the Son of God.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;font-weight:bold'>Matthew 26:63-64
And the high priest said to Him, "I adjure You by the living God, that You
tell us whether You are the Christ, the Son of God." Jesus said to him,
"You have said it yourself.”<o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;font-weight:bold'>Matthew
27:54 Now the centurion, and those who were with him keeping guard over Jesus,
when they saw the earthquake and the things that were happening, became very
frightened and said, "Truly this was the Son of God!"<o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;font-weight:bold'>Mark 1:1
The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God.<o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;font-weight:bold'>Mark
3:11 Whenever the unclean spirits saw Him, they would fall down before Him and
shout, "You are the Son of God!"<o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;font-weight:bold'>Mark
15:39 When the centurion, who was standing right in front of Him, saw the way He
breathed His last, he said, "Truly this man was the Son of God!"<o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;font-weight:bold'>Luke
1:35 The angel answered and said to her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon
you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the
holy Child shall be called the Son of God.<o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;font-weight:bold'>Luke
4:41 Demons also were coming out of many, shouting, "You are the Son of
God!" But rebuking them, He would not allow them to speak, because they
knew Him to be the Christ.<o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;font-weight:bold'>Luke
22:70 And they all said, "Are You the Son of God, then?" And He
[Jesus] said to them, "Yes, I am."<o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>He is called other names as well which
testify to his divinity – names like “Christ”, “Messiah”,
and “Lord”.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>It is better for you to simply reject the
gospel that to poorly represent it.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;font-weight:bold'>Proverbs
17:28 Even a fool, when he keeps silent, is considered wise; When he closes his
lips, he is considered prudent.<o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
vision2020-bounces@moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com] <b><span
style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Joan Opyr<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, December 28, 2004
3:03 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Vision2020 Moscow<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [Vision2020] Dropping
a log on Dale's blog</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'>Dear Saundra, <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'>As you've no doubt noticed, Ron Smith believes he's
answered me by quoting John 2:23: "Whoever denies the Son does not have
the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also."
This, of course, suggests that I'm on my way to a fiery rotisserie in
hell where I'll spend eternity listening to the Chili's kitchen chorus singing,
"I want my baby back, baby back, baby back ribs." That's as may
be, but it does not make me a
"professed atheist." Ron (and Dale) need to pay more
attention to their vocabulary: what we're talking about here is semantics,
not salvation. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'>No, I don't "have the son." I don't
believe that Jesus was/is the one and only son of God. I don't believe in
his divinity. I don't believe that God is tripartite. But I am not
an atheist. If I were, I'd believe in no god at all. None.
Nada. Rien. I'd happily sing John Lennon's <em><i><font
face=Verdana><span style='font-family:Verdana'>Imagine</span></font></i></em>
with a perfectly straight face<em><i><font face=Verdana><span style='font-family:
Verdana'>.</span></font></i></em> But that's not me. I'm singing
"Hear, O Israel, the Lord, our God, the Lord is One."
(Shma Yisrael, Ha'Shem Elokenu Ha'Shem Echad.) Now that might be
heathenism in Ron and Dale's book; it might be hellfire and damnation; but it
ain't atheism.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'>Thus endeth the lesson. Reading for Shabbat school
next week: Elaine Pagels' <em><i><font face=Verdana><span
style='font-family:Verdana'>Beyond Belief</span></font></i></em>, which will
teach Ron and Dale a thing or two about the origins of the Book of John
and the fight in the early church over whether or not to include it in
the Biblical canon. The first three gospels (and the excluded
Book of Thomas) sing a rather different tune about the divinity of Jesus.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'>Shalom (with teeth gritted),<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'>Joan Opyr/Auntie Establishment<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'> <br>
----- Original Message -----<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:#E4E4E4'><b><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;
font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> Saundra Lund<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Monday, December
27, 2004 9:59 PM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>To:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> 'Joan Opyr';
'Vision2020 Moscow'<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> RE: [Vision2020]
Dropping a log on Dale's blog<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=2 face=Verdana><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>Ah, Joan, Joan, Joan . . . <br>
<br>
Dale Courtney monologued:<br>
"It cracks me up when Joan--a professed atheist . . . "<br>
http://right-mind.us/<br>
<br>
Your response:<br>
"I am not an atheist; I am a Jew. I believe in one God . . ."<br>
<br>
Why are you quibbling details?<br>
<br>
I think, in Wilson World's book, there is no real difference: if you
reject the<br>
Trinity (and their own peculiar interpretation of the Trinity &
Christianity, no<br>
less), then you are damned to h*ll, pure & simple. It matters not how
strong<br>
your faith in God: if you don't accept their particular flavor of
Christianity<br>
(and sharing the first five books of the Bible just isn't good enough), then<br>
nothing else matters. You are an UnBeliever or a Non-Believer, depending
on<br>
which minion you are listening to. Heck, they think a lot of Christians
like<br>
myself won't be making it to Heaven, either, so you're in good company
:-)<br>
<br>
[Actually, I'm quite secure in my belief that Heaven will be a wonderfully rich<br>
place with a wide variety of faiths. I'll be there, and so will you, and
lots<br>
of other fascinating folk and beings.<br>
<br>
However, I suspect that those who will be conspicuously and blessedly absent<br>
will be those who lived truly *wicked* lives. You know, those who think
they<br>
know better than everyone else what God *really* wants, those with the
"holier<br>
than thou" attitude, those who try to force their beliefs on others to
line<br>
their own pockets, those who think it's their place to sit in judgment of<br>
others, etc.<br>
<br>
Of course, I could well be wrong about that, and that's OK: I have
supreme<br>
confidence in God's, not Dale's or Doug's, ability to sort it all out
:-)]<br>
<br>
So, while Dale screwed up calling you an atheist, it doesn't really
matter: you<br>
are going straight to h*ll, young lady, unless you change your beliefs and<br>
practices.<br>
<br>
And, now I'm going to be childish and immature and gloat a bit: I've had
the<br>
*extreme* pleasure of reading Joan's forthcoming book . . .<br>
neener-neener-neener! Next Fall, when it's published, I strongly suggest
that<br>
everyone RUN to get it :-) It is truly a delightfully entertaining
work penned<br>
by an obviously gifted writer! In fact, I've had to change my top
position for<br>
the best new fiction :-)<br>
<br>
Joan, I know it's probably too early to ask, but is there a local book-signing<br>
planned???<br>
<br>
<br>
Saundra Lund<br>
Moscow, ID<br>
<br>
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do<br>
nothing.<br>
-Edmund Burke<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: vision2020-bounces@moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com] On<br>
Behalf Of Joan Opyr<br>
Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2004 5:22 PM<br>
To: Vision2020 Moscow<br>
Subject: [Vision2020] Dropping a log on Dale's blog<br>
<br>
Dear Visionaries,<br>
<br>
As I've mentioned before, I don't follow Dale Courtney's or Doug Wilson's
blogs.<br>
This is because A) I'm very busy these days plugging the upcoming publication
of<br>
my *book; and B) if I wanted any more crap out of either of them, I'd squeeze<br>
their heads. However, as several people have now emailed me privately to
tell<br>
me that Dale has referred to me as an atheist, I feel that I must lower the
boom<br>
on his blog and set the record straight. (Or as straight as I can
considering<br>
the fact that I'm a lesbian and thus by definition as bent as a dog's hind leg.<br>
But I digress. As usual. A-hem.)<br>
<br>
I am not an atheist; I am a Jew. I believe in one God, and that one God
would<br>
be the God of Abraham. Dale, as a self-proclaimed Reformed Christian,<br>
technically worships the same God I worship. The only difference is that
Dale<br>
has given my God a few accessories, like a son, a Virgin, and a split<br>
personality (think The Three Faces of Eve). Now, I happen to like my God
simple<br>
and singular, not Trinitarian, not belled, and not whistled.
Nevertheless, I<br>
believe that it is incumbent upon Dale (and, for that matter, upon all<br>
Christians) to recognize that the God they worship is the God of the
Jews. The<br>
Burning Bush The voice on Mount Sinai. The pillar of fire and
cloud. Jehovah<br>
is Jehovah is Jehovah, but that doesn't mean that unless I worship him in<br>
triplicate, I'm an atheist. Far from it. <br>
<br>
If I were in any way childish or immature, I might go so far as to remind Dale<br>
that my people got to the flaming shrubbery first, and that he and his ilk are<br>
really just a load of Johnny-come-latelys. I might toss in a
"neener-neener,"<br>
or a "nyuk-nyuk," or a "shut yer yap, ya ignorant
gentile." Good thing I'm not,<br>
eh? That would be so tacky.<br>
<br>
I've got a brand new pair of roller-skates. I want Dale to give me back
my key.<br>
<br>
<br>
Joan Opyr/Auntie Establishment<br>
*book, as in first novel, as in to be published in the Fall of 2005 by Bywater<br>
Books, which can be visited at www.bywaterbooks.com
<http://wwwbywaterbooks.com><br>
.<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</blockquote>
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