[Vision2020] Re: Earlier question

[Ted Ryan]

Keely,

Yes condemning, not condoning it.  My apologies, changes this statement a bit.

While I appreciate the tenor of your reply, I disagree with one major point.  Whether I am white, black, yellow or purple doesn't change anything and is quite irrelevant (besides the fact that you don't even know to which race I belong, irrelevant none the less).  If what I am saying is true, that truth is not changed by my race.  If what I am saying is false, it is false regardless of my race (still I find it interesting that it appears you have assumed me a "white American male", I don't believe that I revealed this fact, wouldn't it be interesting if I was African American...).  You are not addressing the argument, you are implying that my race has something to do with these facts, and it doesn't.

If we take up that kind of argument technique, then your bias is just as relevant.  We all come in with "baggage" but our personal baggage does not change the truth.  If I am white and somehow my position on this issue is "convenient" that doesn't matter if it is true.  

Truth is not bound by our failure to believe it.

Ted Ryan


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: keely emerinemix 
  To: Saundra Lund ; 'Sunil Ramalingam' ; Ted Ryan 
  Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 11:36 AM
  Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Re: Earlier question


  Ted,

  In an earlier post, you said "condoning" multi-racial marriages was wrong then and is wrong now.  I trust you mean "condemning," if you then cite the marriage of your friends as an example for all of us to follow.

  I'm glad you have friends who are able to provide you such enlightenment; I was beginning to fear that you were suffocating in the rarefied air of privilege, patriarchy, and prejudice.  I am also glad to hear that you don't ever want to see slavery again.  Of course, since you're a white American male, you won't . . . at least from the position
  of being a slave.

  Which, actually, illustrates my earlier point:  class privilege, patriarchy, and the kind of prejudice that would allow you to seriously advance the idea of happy Black slaves working in affectionate relationship with their kindly White owners has a way of insuring that while you might argue the wrong point regarding slavery, you'll never find your perceptions corrected by being a slave yourself.   Pretty comfortable position, from which you might well consider reading a point of view not informed by those in it with you.

  keely emerine mix 
    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Ted Ryan 
    To: Saundra Lund ; 'Sunil Ramalingam' 
    Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com 
    Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 11:21 AM
    Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Re: Earlier question


    Given that a few people have looked in the archives and haven't found the
    list, it may be that I saw the list somewhere else led to it by someone
    here.  I will find it and post it.

    I have not read Mr. Douglas's works so I don't have much of a comment about
    that, but certainly that would be relevant and considered.  No one is
    claiming all slaves were high on the hog, and if Mr. Douglas's experience
    was bad it doesn't mean that everyone in turn had it rough.

    Again, I repeat myself, I am not advocating for slavery's return, I am as
    glad as anyone it is gone.  I never want to see it again.

    Ted Ryan




    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Saundra Lund" <sslund at adelphia.net>
    To: "'Ted Ryan'" <coffeemonkey100 at hotmail.com>; "'Sunil Ramalingam'"
    <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
    Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
    Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 11:03 AM
    Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Re: Earlier question


    > Ted Ryan wrote:
    > "There are a number of books, especially ones written by those who lived
    during
    > those times, that are in opposition to what is currently thought and
    taught.
    > Just because a thousand people say it is so, doesn't make it so.  Try
    reading
    > some of these pieces, there are many and I would be glad to provide
    reference
    > list if you like."
    >
    > Hmmm . . . well, I guess it's safe to assume that _Narrative of the Life
    of
    > Frederick Douglass, An American Slave_ by Frederick Douglass *won't* be on
    that
    > list, in spite of the fact that Mr. Douglass, who was also a minister,
    lived --
    > and was owned -- during that time and wrote of his slavery experiences
    himself.
    >
    > Ted Ryan also wrote:
    > "Although a short trip to the archives back in December will also produce
    the
    > same list."
    >
    > Well, thinking I'd missed something, I went back & looked at the archives.
    Ted,
    > can you please supply the list from December?  Reviewing the messages
    again, I
    > still couldn't find anything that fit your criteria ("ones written by
    those who
    > lived during those times") other than references to the noxious R.L.
    Dabney.
    > Obviously, I'm missing something or missing some messages or something.
    >
    >
    > TIA,
    > Saundra Lund
    > Moscow, ID
    >
    > The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do
    > nothing.
    > -Edmund Burke
    >
    >
    >

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