[Vision2020] WOW

Sat Aug 21 22:07:11 PDT 2004

Alan,

You are so much fun!

"I have looked into the plagiarism charge and it seems that pastor Wilson 
has apologized for his sin"

Yes, and what timing that he should do so some year or so after he was done 
with the book and just moments after someone publicized the plagiarism. If 
someone had a brain they might jump to the conclusion that this apology was 
an apology they were caught and not for the action.

"Christians do sin and when they do, they should respond appropriately"

Great, we agree on something. But since Mr. Wilson has not, we would agree 
that Mr. Wilson is not an acting Christian?

"The idea that R E Lee "caused more deaths on American Soil then
>anyone else..." is laughable on its face since the Union tried to
>recruit Lee for the invasion of the South before Lee took up arms to
>defend Virginia."

Using that logic, I guess everything Satan does is all good and dandy 
because God tried to recruit him for good acts before he left the gates of 
Heaven.

You are confusing the argument of if he was a good General or not, that I 
agree. But instead of taking the side of good, he took the side of division. 
His great military skills dragged the war on longer, killing more young 
people on both sides of the war. The only way General Lee could not have 
changed the war is if he took the same route as Stonewall Jackson.

Yes, he took the side of the Eastern part of Virginia. But he could have 
just as easily taken the side of the Western 13 Counties of the state, now 
known as "West Virginia", and defend it from the horror of a prolonged war 
and slavery.

"That is just my opinion since stupid bracelets not specifically addressed 
in scripture."

Well, using your logic, there are many things that must go to the landfills 
since they are not mentioned in scripture.

"You (editorial "you" again) are mean when you call names and smear
>with titles such as "cult"."

Interesting, I was unaware "cult" was a name or a title. I do know what you 
mean though about calling people names. Like Wilson calls us names. Or 
calling a whole bunch of people on a serve list a "snot load".  However, 
Doug Wilson's religion is a cult if you use the dictionary definition of 
"cult".

"Slavery is however and I am sure that Christ would condemn the practice of
>race-based slavery in the world.  I am not as sure about slavery as a
>system though."

Well, let me point you to a few areas in the Bible. There is this one part, 
where He (God) actually frees the slaves. In fact, Slavery was thought so 
bad by God, that he preferred to have his chosen people be lost in a desert 
for 40 years.

There is another part where it says "Love thy neighbor as thy self". Now, 
unless you are into bondage, I don't see why anyone would consider being 
forced into physical labor as a form of love, or treating thy neighbor with 
any dignity at all.

The biggest clue is, "if you don't want it done to you, others probably 
don't want it done to them". Just something to think about.

"I know nothing about the tax charge but if pastor Wilson owes taxes
>he should pay them.  I would have to give him the benefit of doubt
>though as the bible requires."

Actually, the Board of Equalization already ruled against him, he owes. 
However, it probably wouldn't count for you because it was women, two very 
intelligent ones that our community is lucky to have, that brought the case 
up to the board, and women are not allowed to speak against men in your 
Bible.

"Now I am going to have to find pastor Wilson's book and see what he says 
about it."

Sounds like you completed step 11 of Mr. Wilson's  12 step cult program. 
Throw out the bible, thinking, and reason, and just find out what Wilson 
says about it.

My guess is Mr. Stout, is that you are not a non- biased person that 
happened upon this server list on a google search. Somebody probably told 
you about it that is a friend of Wilson's in your neck of the deep deep 
south. And you came on here to defend Wilson. What are odds that someone 
would buy all of Wilson's books, and happen to hit this serve list?

Are you being honest Alan, or are you deceitful to the people of V2020?

"May God pour his grace out upon you" Same to you.

Donovan J Arnold

>From: "Alan Stout" <providence at mchsi.com>
>To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>Subject: RE: [Vision2020] WOW
>Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 23:05:20 -0500
>
>Mr. Arnold et al,
>
>    Actually I do not know that the charges you level against pastor
>Wilson are true but for the moment I will address at least a couple of
>them.
>
>1.  I have looked into the plagiarism charge and it seems that pastor
>Wilson has apologized for his sin in this although, this seems to be
>Steve Wilkins error rather than Wilson's. Am I wrong in this?
>Christians do sin and when they do, they should respond appropriately.
>
>2.  The idea that R E Lee "caused more deaths on American Soil then
>anyone else..." is laughable on its face since the Union tried to
>recruit Lee for the invasion of the South before Lee took up arms to
>defend Virginia.  You may disagree with his decision but even those in
>the North recognized his character and leadership.  " Of admirable
>personal character, Lee was idolized by his soldiers and the people of
>the South and soon won the admiration of the North. He has remained an
>ideal of the South and an American hero, although some late 20th cent.
>historians have tended toward a more critical view of him as a general
>and as a man."  (http://www.bartleby.com/65/le/Lee-Robe.html  Columbia
>Encyclopedia, 6th Edition)  I am guessing that you are one of the
>"historians" who takes a more critical view.
>
>3.  As far as WWJD... I think He would ask that everyone remove the
>faddish bracelets and return to His word.  That is just my opinion since
>stupid bracelets not specifically addressed in scripture.  Slavery is
>however and I am sure that Christ would condemn the practice of
>race-based slavery in the world.  I am not as sure about slavery as a
>system though.  There are several passage of scripture (we can go to
>scripture to determine HMSWJO can't we?)  that indicate that slavery was
>practiced by His people and even governed by God to some extent.  Now I
>am going to have to find pastor Wilson's book and see what he says about
>it.
>
>4.  I know nothing about the tax charge but if pastor Wilson owes taxes
>he should pay them.  I would have to give him the benefit of doubt
>though as the bible requires.  There really should be two or three
>witnesses before a charge is brought against an elder of the church.
>Now, a couple of guys yelling, "yeah, what about that" do not constitute
>two, three or the snot load you have on this list serve.
>
>5.  You (editorial "you" again) are mean when you call names and smear
>with titles such as "cult".  There better ways to conduct yourselves in
>the debate I am sure.
>
>6.  I am from a small town that does not have list serves.  I guess that
>is how my community is different from yours. Oh, and we are kinder to
>our "cult" members.
>
>
>Well, I am off to bed now.  May God pour his grace out upon you.
>
>Al sends
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Donovan Arnold [mailto:donovanarnold at hotmail.com]
>Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2004 10:01 PM
>To: providence at mchsi.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
>Subject: RE: [Vision2020] WOW
>
>Alan writes:
>
>"Hmmm... well, I do not know that pastor Wilson preaches that slavery is
>OK nor do I know that Lee is a hero of his (though he would be one of
>mine) ditto for the tax stuff."
>
>Well now you do, ignorance is no longer an excuse for you!
>
>So what do you think about plagiarism, is that moral in your book, how
>about
>a man that betrayed his nation, and caused more deaths on American Soil
>then
>anyone else (Gen. Lee) be a hero? Or how about Slavery, is that a Christ
>
>thing to do? How many slaves do you think Christ owned? Perhaps WWJD
>(would
>would Jesus do), should be changed to HMSWJO, (How many slaves would
>Jesus
>Own). How about Tax Evasion, was that "render under Caesar what is
>Caesar's"
>just kind of silly joke by Christ?" Or are Pastors not privy to this
>law?
>
>Let us debate these things. I think Socrates would be disappointed if
>you
>were not able or willing to discuss the issues in a logical fashion
>instead
>of thumbing your nose at them?
>
>Also please tell how we are "mean" in defending our community from fraud
>and
>racism? Do you come from a community where plagiarism, fraud, tax
>evasion,
>and slavery are welcomed?
>
>In our community Lying, Cheating, Stealing, and treating others as you
>don't
>wish to be treated (slavery), are considered wrong. How does your
>community
>differ?
>
>Donovan J Arnold
>
>
>
>"
>
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