[Vision2020] Re: Schools and VA Hospitals

Sunil Ramalingam sunilramalingam@hotmail.com
Mon, 08 Sep 2003 16:18:21 -0700


<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<P>Rather than read these letters, I'm waiting for the graphs.<BR><BR>Sunil</P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>&gt;From: "Mike Curley" <CURLEY@TURBONET.COM>
<DIV></DIV>&gt;Reply-To: curley@turbonet.com 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;To: vision2020@moscow.com 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;Subject: [Vision2020] Re: Schools and VA Hospitals 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 16:46:43 -0700 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;Oh, Jack, what puerile and spurious reasoning you've 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;used this time. Let's look at the supposedly clear 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;analogies you espouse. In the VA Hospital situation, Lad 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;Hamilton assumes (apparently) that there is a larger 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;system of (non-VA) hospitals available; that those 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;hospitals are capable of absorbing the VA patients; that 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;there is more adequate staff at those hospitals; that the 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;doctors, nurses and other skilled staff are better at those 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;hospitals; and that there would be administrative savings 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;by getting the US government out of the hospital business. 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;You claim that is analogous to the school situation. 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;However, the private/parochial system is a small fraction 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;of the size of the public school system; the 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;private/parochial system is unable to absorb anything but 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;a small fraction of public students; there is no evidence 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;that public school teachers are less skilled than 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;private/parochial teachers; there is no clear 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;administrative savings (especially considering that the 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;mandates and goals differ widely); AND, schools are 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;funded and significantly controlled at the state and local 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;level rather than by the Feds. There is also no wait for 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;"treatment" and there are not two tiers of students. 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;There is a separate issue regarding the number of public 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;school teachers who are union members and the impact 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;that would have if they were to suddenly become 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;private/parochial school employees. Regardless, there 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;simply is no reasonable analogy between VA Hospitals 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;and public schools however you might wish there to be. 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;I've always found your arguments to be based on reason 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;and fact. I don't think this one has much of either. 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;Mike Curley 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;On 7 Sep 03, at 15:16, John T. Wenders wrote: 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;Date sent: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 15:16:52 -0700 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;To: jwenders@uidaho.edu 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;From: "John T. Wenders" <JWENDERS@UIDAHO.EDU>
<DIV></DIV>&gt;Subject: Schools and VA Hospitals 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; Lewiston Tribune 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; Date: 08/22/2003 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; Section: Opinion 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; Page: 6A 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; Don't close some VA hospitals -- close them all 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; Ladd Hamilton 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; Closing Veterans Administration hospitals is a lot like 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; closing military bases. No one in Congress wants to do it, 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; no matter how good the arguments for closure might be. The 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; VA is now asking Congress to let it close a number of 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; veterans' hospitals and some other services that it says are 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; no longer needed -- either because the aging veteran 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; populations are moving around or to accommodate a trend 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; toward outpatient care. 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; The VA has a typically bureaucratic name for the 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; process: Capital 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; Asset Realignment for Enhanced Services (CARES), but Sen. 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; Ron Wyden of Oregon calls it a job killer in his state. 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; Three of the proposed closures would occur there, one of 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; them in White City, a small town that would lose 400 jobs. 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; In an angry letter to the VA, Wyden said that in many 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; communities across the country the potential loss of 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; hospital care and beds is an issue ranking right up there 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; with the national economy: "You are talking about a huge 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; veteran population, and they basically have no place to 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; turn." 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; A deputy director of the American Legion has declared 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; that "we 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; can't see how closing a hospital can solve any problems when 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; we have 100,000 veterans standing in line waiting for 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; appointments." 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; It's true that closing a VA hospital won't solve any 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; problems. But 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; closing them all might. The trouble with the VA's "enhanced 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; services" proposal is that it does not go far enough. The 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; veterans would get better care, without excessive standing 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; in line, if the VA took itself out of the hospital business 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; and let the veterans go, at the VA's expense, to the same 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; hospitals that treat everybody else. The present system 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; provides two levels of care -- one for veterans whose only 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; option is a VA hospital and another for the general 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; population. In much of the country the general hospital is 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; better. VA hospitals are chronically short of staff and 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; often a dumping ground for marginally skilled physicians. 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; The veterans deserve better. America needs to support 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; its troops 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; not only when they are overseas but after they are mustered 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; out and facing the ills we all are heir to. -- L.H. 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; ------------------------------- 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; A very amusing article. In making a case for privatizing 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; veterans health care, Hamilton also, by the same logic, and 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; inadvertently I'm sure, makes a case for privatizing the 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; government schools and going to school choice via vouchers. 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; Hamilton makes an excellent case for hospital vouchers when 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; he says: 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; "The veterans would get better care, without excessive 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; standing in line, if the VA took itself out of the hospital 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; business and let the veterans go, at the VA's expense, to 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; the same hospitals that treat everybody else. The present 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; system provides two levels of care -- one for veterans whose 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; only option is a VA hospital and another for the general 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; population. In much of the country the general hospital is 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; better. VA hospitals are chronically short of staff and 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; often a dumping ground for marginally skilled physicians." 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; The parallel between the Veteran's hospitals and the public 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; schools is obvious, but completely missed by both Hamilton 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; and the LMT. Given the LMT's continuing blind support for 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; more public school spending, and it's unrelenting bashing of 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; charter schools, home schooling, and vouchers, Recall that 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; LMT editorial writer Jim Fisher tried to blame the Ruby 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; Ridge disaster on the Idaho Legislature because it refused 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; to regulate home schooling, thereby making the state 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; attractive to home schoolers like Randy Weaver. In this 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; context, Hamilton's statement is absolutely amazing. 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; With a few word changes, one could truthfully re-write his 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; passage: 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; Don't close some Public Schools -- close them all 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; "The students would get better care if the government took 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; itself out of the education business and let the students 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; go, at the government's expense, to the private schools that 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; treat others. The present system provides two levels of care 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; -- one for students whose only option is a government school 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; and another for those that go to private schools. In much of 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; the country the private school is better." 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; But don't hold your breath waiting, the LMT's support for 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; government schools is one of secular religion, not logic. 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; Jack 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; -- 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; John T. Wenders 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; Professor of Economics, University of Idaho 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; Senior Fellow, The Commonwealth Foundation 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; Mailing Address: 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; 2266 Westview Drive 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; Moscow, ID 83843 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; Voice: 208/882-1831 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; Fax: 208/882-3696 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; Cell: 509/336-5811 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; Alpine, AZ: 928/339-4342 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; www.uidaho.edu/~jwenders 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; 
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