[Vision2020] Divisivness Must Stop (2)
Roxanne Sitler
sitler@ultraplix.com
Tue, 11 Nov 2003 18:42:16 -0800
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=20
Dear Mr. Meyer;
=20
If those who consider the term "government schools" to be divisive would
step back from their posture of taking offense for a moment, they might
realize that the term "government," whether used divisively or not, is =
the
descriptor that most accurately reflects the nature of the thing being
discussed. Should "reasonable people" resent accuracy in rhetoric? =
Spare
all other things that should be considered, the centralization of =
governance
alone over that last ten years makes the term "public" an inaccurate
descriptor of this nation's education system and one that couldn't =
possibly
be used in good conscience.
=20
Concerning taxation and representation, Mr. Meyer in another recent post
said,
"For example, although the budget of the Moscow School district is a
concern, it reprehensible for anyone connected with Christ Church or =
Logos
School to be overly concerned. When Logos didn't have a gym, they used =
the
Moscow Junior High. When Christ Church didn't have a big enough =
facility,
they used the Moscow High School. Yes, they paid rent, but instead of =
saying
thanks, a small but vocal number of supporters of these two groups have =
gone
out of their way to be negative about the public school system. They use
negative buzzwords and offer continuous negative comments."
As a lurker on this list (and yes, an outsider for now), I have watched =
the
"education" discussion with interest. What Mr. Meyers fails to grapple =
with
in his comments is that all of Moscow's citizens who own property *are*
paying their hard earned dollars to support the system and by doing so =
*do*
have something to say not only about the budget, but every other policy =
as
well. It appears that Mr. Meyers is suggesting that certain citizens =
who
pay their property tax bill, and then also pay to have their children
privately educated, should be excluded from public input - especially if
there is anything negative about that input. Do all citizens, =
especially
those who actually pay the tax, have the right to enter into public
discourse or not? Is it really "reprehensible" for anyone connected =
with
Christ Church or Logos to be "overly concerned"? I would suggest that =
it's
even more reprehensible for someone to expect a man to support something
with his purse that he is not allowed to criticize.
I also find it incredible that Christ Church and Logos are being singled =
out
here. To assume that there aren't other segments of Moscow's population =
who
are opposed to certain policies and practices of government schools, and
even to their existence, is, I believe, short-sighted. This is a debate =
and
discussion that is taking place on forums all across the nation. =20
"They whine about taxes but offer no productive solutions. Without =
pitching
in and working to help the entire community, it is obvious that some =
group
members are only concerned for themselves. To be blunt, until Logos =
accepts
all students, including those with serious mental, physical, and =
behavioral
handicaps, then those vocal group members have absolutely nothing to say
worth hearing about the cost of public education."
The above statement about pitching in and working to help the entire
community begs this question, " Do those who support government schools =
and
not also private institutions have a concern for only *part* of their
community? What solutions have been offered to those who do not believe =
a
government system is a national blessing? Aren't they part of the
community? It seems to me that those who are being condemned here have
provided themselves a productive solution - an alternative system that =
they
fund sacrificially while still funding the government system. It's hard =
to
imagine that they consider themselves as having a legitimate voice, one
worthy of being heard.
Lastly, if simply having a say about the cost of public education is
dependent on private schools practicing the same folly as government
schools, then perhaps closed mouths ought to be followed by closed =
purses. =20
Our current system of education is not untouchable. The wisdom, =
legitimacy,
and effectiveness of the government schools is a growing part of our
national debate. Those who believe only and wholly in the status quo =
need
to realize that the subject is far from being settled - and, not =
everyone
who questions it ought to be looked upon as if he/she or they had ten =
heads.
As the great statesman Patrick Henry once said, ".but different men =
often
see the same subject in different lights; and, therefore, I hope it will =
not
be thought disrespectful to those gentlemen if, entertaining as I do,
opinions of a character very opposite to theirs, I should speak forth my
sentiments freely, and without reserve." Debate is a great tool for
improvement but it is, by its very nature, divisive. It seems silly to =
get
ourselves in such a dither when debate and disagreements happen because,
surely they will.=20
=20
Respectfully,
Roxanne Sitler =20
=20
=20
----Original Message-----
From: vision2020-admin@moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-admin@moscow.com] =
On
Behalf Of Jim Meyer
Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2003 11:05 AM
To: vision2020@moscow.com
Subject: [Vision2020] Divisivness Must Stop (2)
All,=20
It seems there is confusion about the meaning of my post.=20
=20
My point is that there is a "small but vocal part of the group" that =
makes
the whole group look bad. My point is that the entire group to needs to =
make
a choice about whether to support views that are entirely offensive to =
many
in the greater community of Moscow.=20
=20
There are many substantial, wonderful people in the group as a whole, =
some I
know personally. I think we can all get along fine if reason prevails =
and
the "small but vocal part of the group" does not. Note that I am not
suggesting boycotts or other forms of wall building. I merely ask that
reasonable people prevail.
=20
To those of you who take offense about "appearance" being more important
than the "truth," --think about it. We are talking about opinions and
feelings. I only stated what many people in Moscow feel, is that not a
truth? You might argue whether the term "government school" is a =
recently
coined term or not. You cannot deny that use of the word is divisive. =
You
might argue whether certain people actually are racist deep down in the
inner recesses of their mind or not, but you cannot deny that publicly
writing or saying words that a large proportion of the population will =
take
to be racist is also divisive and should be repugnant to those on both =
sides
of the issue.
=20
Finally, to all those I may have personally offended, I apologize to you
directly, especially to Doug Wilson, who receives attention only because =
of
his public views and position of influence. My purpose is not to offend =
any
particular person, but to increase understanding, suggest a solution,
perhaps help limit an increasingly destructive polarization in the
community.
=20
=20
Sincerely,=20
=20
Jim Meyer
=20
=20
=20
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr =
align=3Dleft><SPAN=20
class=3D793201121-11112003><FONT face=3DArial><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff><FONT=20
size=3D2><SPAN class=3D684273302-12112003> Dear </SPAN>Mr.=20
Meyer;</FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D793201121-11112003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D793201121-11112003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>If=20
those who consider the term "government schools" to be divisive would =
step=20
back from their posture of taking offense for a moment, they might =
realize=20
that the term "government," whether used divisively or not, is the =
descriptor=20
that most accurately reflects the nature of the thing being=20
discussed. Should "reasonable people" resent accuracy =
in=20
rhetoric? Spare all other things that should be =
considered, the=20
centralization of governance alone over that last ten years makes the =
term=20
"public" an inaccurate descriptor of this nation's education system =
and one=20
that couldn't possibly be used in good conscience.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr><SPAN class=3D793201121-11112003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr><SPAN class=3D793201121-11112003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>Concerning taxation and representation, Mr. Meyer in another =
recent=20
post said,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV><SPAN class=3D793201121-11112003><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>"</FONT><FONT=20
face=3DArial><FONT size=3D2>For example, although the budget of =
the Moscow=20
School district is a concern, it reprehensible for anyone =
connected=20
with Christ Church or Logos School to be overly concerned. <SPAN=20
class=3D793201121-11112003><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D2>When =
Logos didn't=20
have a gym, they used the Moscow Junior High. When Christ Church =
didn't=20
have a big enough facility, they used the Moscow High School. Yes, =
they=20
paid rent, but instead of saying thanks, a small but vocal number =
of=20
supporters of these two groups have gone out of their way to be =
negative=20
about the public school system. They use negative buzzwords and =
offer=20
continuous negative=20
=
comments."</FONT></FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV dir=3Dltr><SPAN class=3D793201121-11112003><SPAN=20
class=3D793201121-11112003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>As=20
a lurker on this list (and yes, an outsider for now), I have =
watched=20
the "education" discussion with interest. What =
Mr.=20
Meyers fails to grapple with in his comments is that =
all of=20
Moscow's citizens who own property *are* paying their hard earned =
dollars to=20
support <EM>the system</EM> and by doing so *do* have something =
to say=20
not only<SPAN class=3D684273302-12112003> about</SPAN> the =
budget<SPAN=20
class=3D684273302-12112003>,</SPAN> but every other policy as=20
well. It appears that Mr. Meyers is suggesting that=20
certain citizens who pay their property tax bill, and then also =
pay to have their children privately educated, should be =
excluded from=20
public input - especially if there is anything negative about that =
input.=20
Do all citizens, especially those who actually pay the tax, =
have the=20
right to enter into public discourse or not? Is it really=20
"reprehensible" for anyone connected with Christ Church or Logos to =
be=20
"overly concerned"? I would suggest that it's even more=20
reprehensible for someone to expect a man to support something with =
his=20
purse that he is not allowed to=20
criticize.</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><SPAN=20
class=3D793201121-11112003><FONT face=3DArial><FONT=20
size=3D2></FONT></FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=3D793201121-11112003><FONT =
size=3D+0><FONT=20
size=3D+0>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><FONT face=3DArial><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2><SPAN class=3D793201121-11112003>I also find it incredible =
that Christ=20
Church and Logos are being singled out here. To assume =
that there=20
aren't other segments of Moscow's population who are opposed=20
to certain policies and practices of government =
schools, and=20
even to their existence, is, I believe, short-sighted. This is =
a debate=20
and discussion that is taking place on forums all across the=20
nation. </SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><FONT =
face=3DArial><FONT=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D793201121-11112003></SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT =
face=3DArial><FONT=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN class=3D793201121-11112003><SPAN=20
class=3D793201121-11112003><FONT face=3DArial><FONT =
color=3D#000000 size=3D2>"They=20
whine about taxes but offer no productive solutions. Without =
pitching in=20
and working to help the entire community, it is obvious that some =
group=20
members are only concerned for themselves. To be blunt, until =
Logos=20
accepts all students, including those with serious mental, =
physical, and=20
behavioral handicaps, then those vocal group members have =
absolutely=20
nothing to say worth hearing about the cost of public=20
=
education."</FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></SPAN></FONT></FONT>
<DIV dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2><SPAN class=3D793201121-11112003>The above statement about =
pitching in=20
and working to help the entire community begs this question, =
" Do those=20
who support government schools and not also private institutions =
have a=20
concern for only *part* of their community? What solutions =
have been=20
offered to those who do not believe a government system is a =
national=20
blessing? Aren't they part of the community? It =
seems to me=20
that those who are being condemned here have provided themselves=20
a productive solution - an alternative system that they fund=20
sacrificially while still funding the government system. =
It's=20
hard to imagine that they consider themselves <SPAN=20
class=3D684273302-12112003> as having</SPAN> a legitimate =
voice, one=20
worth<SPAN class=3D684273302-12112003>y</SPAN> of being=20
heard.</SPAN></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><FONT face=3DArial><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2><SPAN class=3D793201121-11112003><FONT face=3DArial><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2><SPAN class=3D793201121-11112003>Lastly, if simply=20
h</SPAN></FONT></FONT>aving a say about the cost of public education =
is=20
dependent on private schools practicing the same folly as government =
schools, then perhaps closed mouths ought to be followed by =
closed=20
purses. </SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><FONT face=3DArial><FONT=20
color=3D#0000ff><FONT size=3D2><SPAN class=3D793201121-11112003>Our =
current system=20
of education is not untouchable. T</SPAN><SPAN=20
class=3D793201121-11112003>he wisdom, legitimacy, and effectiveness of =
the=20
government schools is a growing part of our national =
debate. Those=20
who believe only and wholly in the status quo need to realize that the =
subject=20
is far from being settled - and, not everyone who questions it =
ought to=20
be looked upon as if he/she or they had ten=20
heads. </SPAN><SPAN class=3D793201121-11112003>As the great =
statesman Patrick Henry once said, "…but different men =
often see the=20
same subject in different lights; and, therefore, I hope it will not =
be=20
thought disrespectful to those gentlemen if, entertaining as I do, =
opinions of=20
a character very opposite to theirs<SPAN=20
class=3D684273302-12112003>,</SPAN><SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> =
</SPAN>I=20
should speak forth my sentiments freely, and without =
reserve.”<SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Debate is a great tool for =
improvement=20
but it is, by its very nature, divisive. It seems silly to =
get=20
ourselves in such a dither when debate and disagreements happen=20
because<SPAN class=3D684273302-12112003>, </SPAN>surely they =
will.<SPAN=20
=
class=3D684273302-12112003> </SPAN></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV=
>
<DIV dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><FONT face=3DArial><FONT=20
color=3D#0000ff><FONT size=3D2><SPAN class=3D793201121-11112003><SPAN=20
=
class=3D684273302-12112003></SPAN></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT> </DIV=
>
<DIV dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><FONT face=3DArial><FONT=20
color=3D#0000ff><FONT size=3D2><SPAN class=3D793201121-11112003><SPAN=20
=
class=3D684273302-12112003>Respectfully,</SPAN></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FON=
T></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><FONT face=3DArial><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2><SPAN class=3D793201121-11112003>Roxanne=20
Sitler </SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><FONT size=3D+0><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D793201121-11112003></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><FONT face=3DArial><FONT=20
color=3D#0000ff><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20
=
class=3D793201121-11112003></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></SP=
AN><FONT=20
face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D793201121-11112003></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2>----Original =
Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>=20
vision2020-admin@moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-admin@moscow.com] <B>On =
Behalf=20
Of </B>Jim Meyer<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, November 11, 2003 11:05=20
AM<BR><B>To:</B> vision2020@moscow.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> [Vision2020] =
Divisivness Must Stop (2)<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>All, </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>It seems there is confusion about =
the meaning=20
of my post. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>My point is that there is a "small =
but vocal=20
part of the group" that makes the whole group look bad. My =
point is=20
that the entire group to needs to make a choice about whether =
to=20
support views that are entirely offensive to many in the =
greater=20
community of Moscow. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>There are many substantial, =
wonderful people in=20
the group as a whole, some I know personally. I think we can =
all get=20
along fine if reason prevails and the "small but vocal part of the =
group"=20
does not. Note that </FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I am not =
suggesting=20
boycotts or other forms of wall building. I<FONT color=3D#0000ff><U> =
merely=20
ask that reasonable people prevail.</U></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>To those of you who take offense=20
about "appearance" being more important than the=20
"truth,"</FONT> <FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>--think about it. =
We are=20
talking about opinions and feelings. I only stated what many people =
in=20
Moscow feel, is that not a truth? You might argue whether the =
term=20
"government school" is a recently coined term or not. You =
cannot deny=20
that use of the word is divisive. You might argue whether=20
certain people actually are racist deep down in the inner =
recesses of=20
their mind or not, but you cannot deny that publicly =
writing=20
or saying words that a large proportion of the population will =
take to=20
be racist is also divisive and should be repugnant to those on =
both=20
sides of the issue.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Finally, to all those I may have =
personally=20
offended, I apologize to you directly, especially to Doug Wilson, =
who=20
receives attention only because of his public views and =
position=20
of influence. My purpose is not to offend any particular person, but =
to=20
increase understanding, suggest a solution, perhaps help =
limit an=20
increasingly destructive polarization in the community.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Sincerely, </FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Jim Meyer</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> =20
</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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