[Vision2020] MSD student-teacher/certified staff ratios
Mike Curley
curley@turbonet.com
Fri, 16 May 2003 09:59:27 -0700
<color><param>0100,0100,0100</param>The district office can give anyone wh=
o wants them the
statistics on actual number of elementary students
enrolled in every class at every elementary school as well
as the averages per grade level throughout the district.
Exact numbers for each class at the junior and senior high
schools should also be available although the number of
students in "core" classes such as English, math, and
science are probably most instructive (least susceptible to
the aberrations Mr. Kaag mentioned).
For what it's worth, the averages that were projected last
year were about 20.3 per class K-3, about 22.7 per class K-
6. Those numbers assumed an elementary enrollment of
1197 and were made before (but in anticipation of a
successful) levy.
Again, for what it's worth, the student to certified staff ratio
for MSD has exceeded state averages for the last 6 years.
The lowest ratio was 01-02 at 13.1 students per certified
staff member.
As Don Kaag pointed out, there are certified staff
members each year who perform essentially
adminstrative functions in MSD. While that fact distorts
the actual classroom teacher per student ratio, it also
under-reports administrative ratios and expenses. The
district, of course, knows that and Sue Driskill tracks
actually classroom teacher expense and actual
adminstrative expense for both accounting and future
budget purposes. The state requires the certified staff to
student ratios to be reported as such. The district is not
misleading the state when it reports that statistic.
However, given the distortions noted by others on this list,
it is hard to imagine what real value that particular
statistic, standing alone, has to anyone.
Mike Curley
data source: Adminstrative Council's Recommendation
for Services Subject to a Levy, MSD, Feb. 2002.
On 15 May 03, at 21:39, Van Deventer, Jack wrote:
</color>From: <color><param>0000,0000,8000</param>"Van Deventer=
, Jack" <<jack@wsu.edu></color>
To: <color><param>0000,0000,8000</param>"'Don Kaag '" <<dkaag=
@turbonet.com>,</color>
<color><param>0000,0000,8000</param>"'Vision 2020 '"</color>
<color><param>0000,0000,8000</param><<vision2020@moscow.com></color>
<bold>Subject: <color><param>0000,0000,8000</param>RE: [Vision2020=
] MSD Student-to-Teacher ratio</bold></color>
Date sent: <color><param>0000,0000,8000</param>Thu, 15 May 2003 21:3=
9:25 -0700</color>
<underline><color><param>0000,8000,0000</param>[ Double-click this line fo=
r list subscription options ]</underline></color>
Thanks for the note, Don. I see your point, but the four
points you raised are equally applicable to all the other
school districts as well. I appreciate your personal
observations, but MSD reported 15.22 students per teacher
for a reason.
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: Don Kaag
To: Vision 2020
Sent: 5/15/03 8:25 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] MSD Student-to-Teacher ratio
Jack:
I didn't accuse Dale of anything, and I certainly didn't
abuse him. He is a gentleman, as am I.
I illustrated my point, I believe, in a reasonable fashion,
with examples.
Since I have the advantage of actually teaching kids in the
Moscow School District to add to my arguments, and being
able to physically count heads in my classroom, it seems
that I should know more about how many of them there
are,
vice scanning a statistical abstract issued by the State
Department of Education.
By the way, the ISAT results are published, and we as a
District scored high in the state. We must be doing
something right.
Regards,
Don Kaag
On Thursday, May 15, 2003, at 07:36 PM, Van Deventer,
Jack
wrote:
<color><param>7F00,0000,0000</param>> This is really interesting.
> Dale Courtney quotes the State of Idaho's annual
> statistical report. Don Kaag accuses Dale of
> oversimplifying. Donovan Arnold says "Statistics don't
> lie, but liars use statistics"
>
> These replies sound like the old adage, "If you have no
> argument, abuse the plaintiff."
>
> If you guys don't like the stats, shouldn't you be going
> after MSD for providing them and the State of Idaho for
> reporting them?
>
> Jack
> _____________________
> Jack Van Deventer
> jack@wsu.edu
>
> _____________________________________________________
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